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Opinion & Analysis : Roundtables

ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1): What are the worst instances of a fighter receiving an unearned Title shot? Williams, Shelby, Amadi and Hobaugh


Mar 15, 2010 - 10:48:41 AM

As an augmentation to Jason Amadi's column this week, name your choices for the worst instances of a fighter who didn't deserve a title shot getting one because they were "more exciting" or more likely to draw? Who lost out as a result, and might it have changed the course of MMA?

ALEX WILLIAMS, MMATORCH COLUMNIST

Brock Lesnar had not earned a shot at the UFC heavyweight title when he fought Randy Couture. He had all of two wins in MMA, the most significant coming against Heath Herring, who was not Top 10 at the time. Based on in-cage accomplishments, Couture's opponent should have been Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira. The same night Lesnar lost his UFC debut to Frank Mir, "Minotauro" submitted Tim Sylvia to win the interim heavyweight championship (Couture was on the sidelines over much publicized contractual issues).

If Lesnar had had to earn a championship fight on merit alone, he would have faced a few Gabriel Gonzaga or Cheick Kongo types, perhaps even Shane Carwin. He would have prevailed and ultimately beaten either Couture or "Mino," but it would have taken longer for him to become champ.

TOBEN SHELBY, AUDIO CHOKE CO-HOST

At risk of keeping things short and simple on this topic, I’ll go with the recent decision to have Vitor Belfort challenge Anderson Silva for the middleweight belt in the UFC as an example of an “exciting” fighter getting a shot without really earning it. Belfort had cache with old school fans and was coming of some quick and brutal wins over Rick Franklin and Matt Lindland…but hadn’t actually fought in the 185 weight class yet. Since Belfort had to pull out of the fight we won’t know what could’ve been, but the historical impact was unlikely to be that great, since Silva seemed to be the heavy favorite. For a fight that actually happened, I’d probably go with Nate Quarry getting a shot at Rich Franklin at UFC 56. I’m not sure Franklin was the next rationale step for Quarry after beating Pete Sell, Shonie Carter and Lodune Sincaid. It seemed more like an attempt to cash in on the popularity of The Ultimate Fighter and ended very badly for Quarry. Historically, there wasn’t much impact…other than providing one of the most jarring knockouts for the UFC to run on Franklin highlight reels forever. Quarry winning clearly would have been a huge deal at the time, but Anderson Silva would still be dominating the division today.

JASON AMADI, MMATORCH COLUMNIST

I don’t think there’s any doubt that Brock Lesnar got the least deserved title shot in MMA history. He was 2-1 as a professional, and 1-1 in the UFC, yet still earned a shot at the UFC Heavyweight Championship based on his drawing power, and Couture’s desire for big fights. However, if people choose to remember this one correctly, no one lost out. Fabricio Werdum was already scheduled to fight at UFC 90 against Junior Dos Santos, Mir and Nogueira already filmed a season of TUF and were locked into a fight at UFC 92, so Couture needed a dance partner in between and Brock Lesnar was selected. There was really no other choice unless Randy Couture wanted to take an even longer lay off and wait until that whole thing was settled and face the Nogueira/Mir winner in the summer of the following year. Since then Brock Lesnar smashed Couture and Mir, both in the second round in dominant fashion, so I don’t think there’s any doubt about who actually deserves to be champion.

ERIC HOBAUGH, MMATORCH SPECIALIST

I think that Dan Hardy does not deserve a title shot, yet. I have no problem with him being a top five fighter, but John Fitch has earned his shot at Georges St. Pierre. He as had three wins in a row against top competition. Dan Hardy has had five UFC wins in a row, but they have been against lesser fighters. John Fitch is the only fighter that could realistically defeat GSP. It also is the most exciting welterweight fight out there in MY opinion. Making title fights like this hurts the validity of our sport.

[Brock Lesnar art by Cory Gould (c) MMATorch.com]

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MORE Roundtables ARTICLES
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1): What's next for B.J. Penn and Kenny Florian after their UFC 118 losses? Marsh, Hyden, Hobaugh, Leet and Hansen
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 2 of 2): What are your early thoughts on the Brock Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez fight at UFC 121? Williams, Hyden, Hansen, Lee, Matthew and Penick
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1 of 2): What are your early thoughts on the Brock Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez fight at UFC 121? Perez, Bacior, Hobaugh, Marsh and Pelkey
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 3 of 3): Has Chael Sonnen's trash talk made you want to cheer for or against him at UFC 117? Will he be able to win? Park, Perez, Williams, Bacior, Shelby and Penick
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 2 of 3): Has Chael Sonnen's trash talk made you want to cheer for or against him at UFC 117? Will he be able to win? Carter, Marsh, Hyden, Wyatt and Pelkey
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1 of 3): Has Chael Sonnen's trash talk made you want to cheer for or against him at UFC 117? Will he be able to win? - Hansen, Leet, Rowland, Hobaugh and Amadi
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 2 of 2): Thoughts on the UFC 119 and 120 cards with their respectively "weak" headliners? Pelkey, Williams, Hyden, Lee, Matthew and Penick
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1 of 2): Thoughts on the UFC 119 and 120 cards with their respectively "weak" headliners? Perez, Bacior, Hobaugh, Marsh and Hansen
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 2 of 2) What should Strikeforce do with Fedor Emelianenko's final contracted fight? Pelkey, Williams, Hyden, Lee, Matthew and Penick
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1 of 2) What should Strikeforce do with Fedor Emelianenko's final contracted fight? Perez, Bacior, Hobaugh, Marsh and Hansen
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 2 of 2): What were your favorite fights of the first half of 2010? Matthew, Lee, Hyden, Hobaugh and Penick
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1 of 2): What were your favorite fights of the first half of 2010? Perez, Marsh, Bacior and Hansen
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 2 of 2): UFC 116 predictions for Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin main event - Perez, Carter, Hyden, Williams, Shelby, DeBar, Matthew and Penick
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1 of 2): UFC 116 predictions for Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin main event - Hansen, Bacior, Rowland, Lee, Marsh, Kane, Hobaugh and Amadi
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 2 of 2): Which summer UFC card are you most looking forward to - UFC 116, UFC 117 or UFC 118? Carter, Bacior, Hyden, Shelby, Lee, Matthew and Penick
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1 of 2): Which summer UFC card are you most looking forward to - UFC 116, UFC 117 or UFC 118? Williams, Sutcliffe, Hansen, Perez, Hobaugh and Pelkey
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 3 of 3): Did the UFC hype the "grudge match" aspect of Rampage vs. Evans too much considering how the fight played out? Shelby, Lee, Matthew and Penick
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 2 of 3): Did the UFC hype the "grudge match" aspect of Rampage vs. Evans too much considering how the fight played out? Carter, Williams, Bacior, Hyden and Pelkey
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1 of 3): Did the UFC hype the "grudge match" aspect of Rampage vs. Evans too much considering how the fight played out? Sutcliffe, Hansen, Perez, Hobaugh and Amadi
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 2 of 2): Rich Franklin vs. Chuck Liddell predictions - who wins and how? Carter, Shelby, Lee, Hyden, Matthew, Pelkey and Penick

(c) 1999-2010 TDH Communications Inc. - All rights reserved.


Staff Picks - Top Ten Articles
UK SCENE: A bad week for UK fighters capped off at UFC 118; Daley's continued dismissal and UK news in brief
THE TAPPER'S TOOLBOX: Fixing the little mistakes in your BJJ game - "How to break guard"
PARK: A look at five era-changing losses by UFC Champions following B.J. Penn's UFC 118 loss to Frankie Edgar
ALL BUSINESS: The UFC 118 and Fan Expo Live Experience - Thoughts From a Fan Who Loves This Business
PENICK: Frankie Edgar had "The Answer" for a disappointing B.J. Penn at UFC 118
PARK: Randy Couture vs. James Toney at UFC 118 reminiscent of the initial UFC event's stylistic clashes
THE TAPPER'S TOOLBOX: Fixing the little mistakes in your BJJ game - "Mistakes Beginners Make – The Butterfly Sweep"
UK SCENE: Andre Winner and Nick Osipczak weigh in on UFC 118 bouts, Pickett vs. Jorgensen thoughts and more
AMADI: The good, the bad, and the ugly from "Strikeforce: Houston" on Showtime
PENICK: Bad officiating and no drug testing at "Strikeforce: Houston" showcase issues with the Texas Athletic Commission

ALSO: UFC PPV Reports: Results, analysis, fight ratings of all recent events



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Artciles By Category


Staff Picks
UK SCENE: A bad week for UK fighters capped off at UFC 118; Daley's continued dismissal and UK news in brief
THE TAPPER'S TOOLBOX: Fixing the little mistakes in your BJJ game - "How to break guard"
PARK: A look at five era-changing losses by UFC Champions following B.J. Penn's UFC 118 loss to Frankie Edgar
ALL BUSINESS: The UFC 118 and Fan Expo Live Experience - Thoughts From a Fan Who Loves This Business
PENICK: Frankie Edgar had "The Answer" for a disappointing B.J. Penn at UFC 118
PARK: Randy Couture vs. James Toney at UFC 118 reminiscent of the initial UFC event's stylistic clashes
MMATorch Podcast
MMATORCH EXCLUSIVE: The Audio Choke with Collins, Rowland and Shelby 8/31 (52 min.) - UFC 118 event review and breakdown
VINTAGE AUDIO ('95): Keller interviews Dan Severn trainer after UFC 4, going behind the scenes at early UFC event (22 min.)
MMATORCH EXCLUSIVE: The Audio Choke with Collins, Rowland and Shelby 8/24 (102 min.) - Strikeforce Houston review and UFC 118 preview
MMATORCH EXCLUSIVE: Fighters and Writers audio with Carter, Hansen and McDermott (57 min.) - UFC 117 review and discussion
MMATORCH EXCLUSIVE: The Audio Choke with Collins, Rowland and Shelby 8/10 (85 min.) - UFC 117 review, Strikeforce Challengers and WEC 50 preview
MMATORCH EXCLUSIVE: The Audio Choke with Collins, Rowland and Shelby 8/3 (104 min.) - UFC on Versus 2 review, UFC 117 preview and more!
Upcoming Events
Bellator 27, September 2
Bellator 28, September 9
Shark Fights 13, September 11
UFC Fight Night 22, September 15
Bellator 29, September 16
Bellator 30, September 23
MMA News
BELLATOR NEWS: Joe Soto says "dirt bag" Joe Warren only better than him at s*** talking ahead of Bellator 27 meeting
UFC NEWS: FightMetric named the official statistics provider of the UFC
UFC 118 SALARIES: James Toney tops disclosed payroll with $500,000 for his three minute loss to Randy Couture
UFC NEWS: Alan Belcher undergoes another eye surgery for "blurry vision"
UFC NEWS: Gabe Ruediger to get one more shot in the UFC after one-sided UFC 118 loss to Joe Lauzon
BELLATOR NEWS: Weigh-in results for Bellator Fighting Championships 27
PPV & TV Events
KELLER'S UFC 118 BLOG: Toney vs. Couture, Edgar vs. Penn... Random Thoughts in Chronological Order
UFC 118 RESULTS: Penick's live round by round report of Edgar vs. Penn II, Couture vs. Toney event from Boston
UFC 118 Prediction and Betting Contests
STRIKEFORCE: HOUSTON RESULTS - Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza captures vacant Middleweight Championship with decision win over Tim Kennedy
STRIKEFORCE: HOUSTON RESULTS - Penick's live round by round report of King Mo vs. Feijao event on Showtime
BELLATOR 25 RESULTS: Pelkey's live round by round report of Horbuckle vs. Blackburn headlined event from Chicago
TV Reviews
THE ULTIMATE FIGHTER REPORT 6/9: Hyden's (Virtual Time) rundown of all the fights, all the drama in a 2 hour episode on Spike TV
THE ULTIMATE FIGHTER REPORT 6/2: Hyden's (Virtual Time) rundown of all the fights, all the drama on Spike TV
THE ULTIMATE FIGHTER REPORT 5/26: Hyden's rundown of all the fights, all the drama on Spike TV
THE ULTIMATE FIGHTER REPORT 5/19: Hyden's (Virtual Time) rundown of all the fights, all the drama on Spike TV
THE ULTIMATE FIGHTER REPORT 5/12: Hyden's rundown of all the fights, all the drama on Spike TV
THE ULTIMATE FIGHTER REPORT 5/5: Hyden's (Virtual Time) rundown of all the fights, all the drama on Spike TV
Live Event Reports
BELLATOR 26 RESULTS: Carter's Live Report - Heavyweight, Bantamweight, and Women’s 115 lbs. Quarterfinal Tournament Bouts
STRIKEFORCE: HOUSTON RESULTS - Unaired preliminary card results for event from the Toyota Center
BELLATOR 24 RESULTS: Carter's Live Report - Season Three Debut Show
LOCAL SCENE: First round finishes abound at "Combat on Capitol Hill 2" in St. Paul, MN
LOCAL SCENE: Havoc at the Hyatt II brings good fights and controversy to Minneapolis on Saturday night
BELLATOR 21 RESULTS: Carter's Report of the Lightweight Tournament Finals
Opinion & Analysis
UK SCENE: A bad week for UK fighters capped off at UFC 118; Daley's continued dismissal and UK news in brief
ROUNDTABLE (pt. 1): What's next for B.J. Penn and Kenny Florian after their UFC 118 losses? Marsh, Hyden, Hobaugh, Leet and Hansen
THE TAPPER'S TOOLBOX: Fixing the little mistakes in your BJJ game - "How to break guard"
HYDEN BLOG: Change Can Be A Good Thing
PARK: A look at five era-changing losses by UFC Champions following B.J. Penn's UFC 118 loss to Frankie Edgar
ALL BUSINESS: The UFC 118 and Fan Expo Live Experience - Thoughts From a Fan Who Loves This Business
Interviews
STRIKEFORCE QUOTABLES: Muhammed "King Mo" Lawal says he deserved to lose to Rafael "Feijao" Cavalcante because he abandoned his gameplan
QUOTABLES: Paul Daley says UFC "God" Dana White rules the UFC with an iron rod
UFC QUOTABLES: Lightweight Champion Frankie Edgar says he's fine with fans taking time to believe in him after consecutive wins over B.J. Penn
QUOTABLES: Shaquille O'Neal says he wants to fight one MMA fight against Hong Man-Choi
BELLATOR NEWS: Travis Reddinger credits trainer Sergio Cunha for his progression; ready for "explosive" bantamweight tournament
UFC QUOTABLES: UFC welterweight and former pro boxer Marcus Davis doesn't think James Toney will be able to do anything at UFC 118
Champs & Rankings
UFC 118: Edgar vs. Penn II Prediction and Betting Contest Results
MMATorch Staff Rankings - August 2010
UFC 117 Prediction and Betting Contest Results
UFC 116: Lesnar vs. Carwin Prediction and Betting Contests Results
MMATorch Staff Rankings - July 2010
UFC 115 Prediction and Betting Contest Results
Ask the Torch
Ask MMATorch: Answers to your questions about Shamrock, Half vs. Full Guard, Hammill, UFC Pay
DVD Reviews
DVD REVIEW: "UFC: Rampage Greatest Hits" a great collection of fights for Rampage fans new and old
DVD WORLD: Pride 33 "The Second Coming" - Dan "Hollywood" Henderson vs. Wanderlei "The Axe Murderer" Silva (pt. 8)
DVD WORLD: Pride 33 "The Second Coming" - Nick Diaz vs. "The Fireball Kid" Takanori Gomi (pt. 7)
DVD WORLD: Pride 33 "The Second Coming" - Alistair "Ubereem" Overeem vs. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (pt. 6)
DVD WORLD: Pride 33 "The Second Coming" - Sergei Kharitonov vs. Mike Russow (pt. 5)
DVD WORLD: Pride 33 "The Second Coming" - Hayato "Mach" Sakurai vs. Mac Danzig (pt. 5)
Torch Flashbacks
FLASHBACK: Keller's full fight report and more Dana White quotes on UFC's debacle of an event back in 2001
KELLER: Dana White had a night even worse than Strikeforce's on Saturday night back in 2001
FLASHBACK (3 YRS AGO): Keller's UFC 69 Report with Georges St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra, Koscheck vs. Sanchez, Huerta vs. Garcia
ENNIS (Flashback 2006): Pride vs. UFC: Which Aspects of Each Promotion Would You Keep?
FLASHBACK - 3 YRS AGO: Ennis's UFC 67 Report - Rampage and Cro Cop debut, Anderson Silva defends, Scott Smith, Roger Huerta
1 YR AGO - PENICK'S UFC 88 REPORT: Rashad Evans vs. Chuck Liddell, Rich Franklin vs. Matt Hamill, plus Hendo, Marquardt (w/star ratings)
Torch MMA Polls
MMATORCH POLL: Bellator CEO Bjorn Rebney says not all MMA fans are NFL fans. Be heard, are you a fan of one sport alone or both?
NEW MMATORCH POLL: Who should Anderson Silva face next?
POLL: Should Liddell retire or fight again? Should Cro Cop retire or fight again?
MMATORCH POLL: Which fight are you anticipating more - Lesnar vs. Carwin or Silva vs. Sonnen?
POLL: What should Paul Daley's punishment be for the post-fight cheapshot at Koscheck?
MMATORCH POLL: Who will win and how in the UFC 113 main event between Lyoto Machida and Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
Prediction and Betting Contests
UFC 118: Edgar vs. Penn II Prediction and Betting Contest Results
UFC 118 Prediction and Betting Contests
UFC 117 Prediction and Betting Contest Results
UFC 117: Silva vs. Sonnen Prediction and Betting Contests


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