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PPV & TV Events : UFC Events
UFC 85 ROUNDTABLE REVIEWS: Ennis, Pelkey, Hyden, Penick

Jun 9, 2008 - 7:48:10 PM


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Shawn Ennis, MMATorch Senior Columnist: (7.5)

This was a show of ups and downs, but the ups outweighed the downs. The Vera-Werdum fight featured an early stoppage, but Werdum continued to show more fire in this fight than he did in his previous outing against Arlovski and in the first round against Gonzaga. Vera really needs to just swallow his pride and move to 205, or he's just going to keep talking about how he never got his butt kicked at heavyweight after losses. The Marquardt-Leites fight was the best of the night for me, but the point deductions (both deserved and not) took away from an otherwise outstanding performance by Nate Marquardt. The Swick-Davis fight showed that Swick belongs at 170, and Davis just might not be ready to crack the upper echelon at the moment. Bisping also showed that he belongs in his new weight class, handing Jason Day a serious beatdown. Bisping is a needed mid-tier fighter in the middleweight division who could have some intriguing fights as he works his way up the ladder.

Prelims: Luiz Cane and Martin Kampmann made serious statements in their fights. Can is no joke at 205, and Kampmann is not rusty. Cane absolutely thrashed Jason Lambert, who is not an easy opponent. Jorge Rivera may not be on the same level as a Lambert in the middleweight division, but to tap "El Conquistador" in under three minutes is nothing to scoff at. Meanwhile at lightweight, how about Matt Wiman? I never in a million years saw that one coming. I figured Tavares wins that fight at least 9 out of 10 times, but Wiman smoked him. The first round was dead even, and Wiman just destroyed the Brazilian on the feet. And remember, Tavares had never before been stopped and was on the fast track to some bigger fights. Now I really want to see what Wiman is made of. It's one of those fights that makes you say, "Hey, was that a fluke? Because it sure didn't look like one. I gotta see this guy again." The biggest shocker of the night, though, has to go to the unknown BJJ blue belt Kevin Burns, who subbed BJJ wizard Roan Carneiro. Let's not forget that Carneiro gave Jon Fitch all he could handle in the first round of their fight. I'll be excited to check out that fight along with the Hardonk-Sanchez slugfest.

As for the main event, Alves was unprofessional and naive in asking for a title shot when he couldn't make weight against the former champ. I'm an Alves fan, but he's got to wake up if he thinks he's getting a title shot after this weight fiasco and testing positive for a diuretic (which helps you make weight) after a previous fight. Sprained ankle or no, Alves has to know that he's at least one or two fights away from a title shot. And he's got to make weight and win in both.

So all in all it was a solid card, and the pacing was worlds better than it has been on UFC PPVs in the past. They're scrambling to show fights at the end, and it's refreshing. Let's hope this trend continues after two events where we saw 9 and 8 fights respectively.

Matt Pelkey, MMATorch Columnist: (7.5)

First off, let me say that I bumped up my score a half a point based solely on the goodwill the UFC is building with it's fan base by making a concerted effort to cram as many fights into the broadcast as they can. We got eight fights last night, and nine at UFC 84. That's just good business. I think they've been loading up the cards with at least eleven fights so they can show more fights on the pay-per-views and still have a few left for UFC On Demand. That way, everybody wins.

As far as the fights go, there was nothing epic here, but solid to good stuff throughout the card. As has been the case with MMA in general lately, the refs came into play far too often in determining the outcome of the fight. You can't blame the judges for the decision in the Marquardt-Leites fight. They scored it right. Leites won the first round, but clearly lost the second and third. But, with the point deductions in each of the last two rounds, they had no other choice but to score them 9-9 (and no, I don't think the second should've been 9-8).

The Verdum-Vera fight also ended in controversy. I understand that Vera was mounted and taking a lot of shots, but the rule says a fight should be stopped when a fighter can no longer intelligently defend himself. There was no point where Vera wasn't actively trying to defend himself. He should've been allowed to have the bell save him. I give credit to Verdum though. He fought a beautiful fight, and is the most worthy of a title shot in the division right now, and that includes Frank Mir.

We also got a few upsets on the card. The most impressive had to be Matt Wiman's victory over Thiago Tavares. This was easily the fight of the night for me. The pace those two were keeping up was phenomenal. If that finish had come in the middle of the third round instead of the second, we might be putting it up there with Maeda-Torres as Fight of the Year so far. We also got strong debuts from Luiz Cane and Kevin Burns. Burns's submission of Roan Carneiro might be the biggest upset of the year so far. It's just unfortunate that not enough people are familiar enough with Carneiro to realize that.

And the main event. Oh where do I begin? Thiago Alves looked fantastic, and he got the stepping stone victory he needed to put himself next in line for a title shot. However, he failed to make weight by an embarrassing four pounds. My gut tells me he'll have to win one more against top competition to get back in good graces and be trusted to not embarrass the company again. I'm thinking a battle with Josh Koscheck is just what the doctor ordered. Just as Matt Hughes said, he has one fight left and its against Matt Serra. Not much more can or needs to be said there.

I'd also regret if I didn't mention that Mike Swick has firmly cemented himself in my top five least favorite fighters. It's nothing personal; he seems like a nice guy. Its just a list you find yourself on when you manage to drag Marcus Davis (near my top five favorite fighters) into the worst fight of the night. I think Davis writes his $50,000 bonus into his budget in advance every three months. All in all, this was a very good night of fights, especially when you consider there was no title on the line.

Frank Hyden, MMATorch Contributor: (8.0)

This was a very good show with a couple of really nice fights. The battle between Thales Leites and Nate Marquardt was marred by the point deductions but it was still very enjoyable. Matt Wiman and Luiz Cane really showed some great power in their respective fights. I don't know what Jason Lambert was thinking but he just wrote the anti-blueprint for how to fight a guy with a longer reach. Michael Bisping looked awesome. I want to see him fight Rich Franklin. No use messing around, throw him in there and let's see if he can hang.

The Vera/Werdum early stoppage was disappointing but a case could be made that Werdum would have won eventually. He looked to be the better fighter tonight. I'm not a big fan of those types of stoppages as the ref usually jumps in before any decisive shots are landed but a fighter shouldn't let himself get put into those types of situations to begin with. It's like letting a close fight go to the judges and then complaining that the decision didn't go your way. You know if you get caught in a spot where your opponent is raining blows on you that the ref is going to step in and stop it so you can't let that happen.

Mike Swick and Marcus Davis had a good, if not exactly memorable, fight. However, the biggest news by far coming out of this show is what happened with Matt Hughes. Thiago Alves should be matched against someone like a Josh Koscheck before he gets a title shot. He needs to prove that he can make weight before he gets a match against Georges St. Pierre. Hughes got worked tonight but it sounds like he wants a fight with Matt Serra before he rides off into the Hall of Fame. He'll have to think about whether he really wants that fight, though.

Jamie Penick, MMATorch Editor-in-Chief: (7.5)

This was a very solid night of fights that, despite not having a title fight or the original main event, still delivered for a satisfying show. Eight fights on the Pay-Per-View is a great thing, and with the nine on UFC 84, hopefully a trend rather than a mirage.

The two fights garnering a bit of controversy had me disappointed. With Vera-Werdum, I honestly felt it was an early stoppage, though I take nothing away from Werdum as he did everything necessary to lead him to the stoppage victory. His pass into mount was very nicely done and he showed no signs of letting up. That being said, I felt Vera was defending himself well enough to last out the rest of that round, and the fact that he was able to immediately get up and coherently voice his displeasure cemented that feeling for me. With the Leites-Marquardt fight, the second point deduction was the disappointing spot for me. Upon viewing the replay, it was pretty clear that Marquardt's elbow landed on the side of the head, and to take away a second point from him in a fight he was winning in such a questionable fashion was a low point. Now, Herb Dean is a tremendous MMA referee, but he was too quick to take the point away from Marquardt and it definitely cost him the fight. However, that should lead us to a rematch between these two, which after the fight they had on Saturday is not a bad thing.

Thiago Alves coming in overweight was another highly unfortunate piece of the show. Give Matt Hughes credit for taking the fight at a catch weight and not making the English fans lose yet another main event for this show. As for the fight itself, Hughes is obviously not the Hughes of old. Alves pretty much picked him apart and looked tremendous on his way to the TKO victory. It's a big step for Alves and it's for sure a step out the door for Hughes. We're all waiting for Hughes vs. Serra, and I'm sure most of realize that's probably the last one for the best welterweight in the history of the game.

The prelims shown had some good action as well, including what a lot considered the fight of the night with Wiman against Tavares. Wiman had a great performance including a highlight knockout that I'm sure will make it's way onto UFC "Best Of's" in the future.

Overall this was an entertaining show with some average to good fights, but no great ones. Still, that's not a bad way to spend a Saturday afternoon.

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