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UFC 101 Writers' Roundtable: Is there any chance Forrest Griffin took a dive?
Aug 11, 2009 - 4:10:24 PM UFC 101 Writers' Roundtable: Is there any chance Forrest Griffin took a dive?

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We've got a number of talking points to discuss coming out of UFC 101 that our staff here at MMATorch has weighed in on, so we present to you the Post UFC 101 edition of the Writers' Roundtable in a multi-part segment that we will roll out throughout the week.

Question 1: Do you think there's any chance Forrest Griffin took a dive against Anderson Silva?

Jamie Penick, MMATorch Editor-in-Chief:

No, not a chance. There's no benefit to throwing the fight. Sure, Silva looks like a better draw after convincingly finishing Griffin, and it rebuilt his image after the Leites and Cote fights, but there's not a chance that a dive was on the table here. A Griffin win would have been beneficial to the UFC just as much as the loss boosts Silva's image. Had Griffin pulled off the upset, one of the UFC's most popular stars would have beaten one of the best fighters in the world and he would have gotten an even higher profile. What happened was the best fighter in the world made yet another good fighter look really bad, and in the process showed how ahead of the curve he is when it comes to the fight game.

Shawn Ennis, MMATorch Senior Columnist:

Zero chance. None whatsoever. To suggest otherwise (and I'm talking about our good friend Jason Bent here) is insane. Utterly, totally, completely insane. Is it that incomprehensible that the best striker in all of MMA forced Griffin to say he didn't want anymore? Yes, Griffin usually comes forward until he gets knocked out or until the end of the fight. But I tell you, my friends: there is a big difference between getting hit in the face by Rashad Evans and getting hit in the face by Anderson Silva. It's not hyperbole - no one is a better striker. This is the same guy who forced iron-jawed Dan Henderson to curl into the fetal position with his strikes. He demolished Rich Franklin twice.

Griffin has been knocked out before - sure, he got back up pretty quickly afterwards. Is that too unbelievable? How often do you see guys get up quickly after the ref pulls their opponent off? It's not that uncommon. Guys who get punched in the face for a living regain their senses quicker than the rest of us would in the same situation. That's just the way it is. And as far as Silva going backwards and scoring a big shot, he's hardly the first one to do that. Check out the second Liddell-Sobral fight if you don't believe me. Sure, Silva threw a straight punch and it floored Griffin. So what? He was already hurt! And as far as Griffin using a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad gameplan? Again, not so hard to believe.

How many times have we heard guys talk about abandoning the gameplan once that door slams shut? And the natural reaction for someone when they get hit is to hit back. Yes, Griffin should have tried to use his size to bully Silva. He should have gone for the takedown rather than stand in front of the Middleweight Champ. That's not what happened. And for the record, it wouldn't have worked anyway. Silva is the greatest. No questions asked, hands down. The greatest. Forrest didn't throw that fight any more than a guy who taps out due to strikes. Absolutely a ridiculous, incomprehensibly short-sighted and inane conclusion to draw any way you look at it. (No hard feelings, Jason.)

Jason Bent, MMATorch Columnist:

Is there a chance? Yes.

I cannot state that it is absolute fact he took a dive and those who claim he did not are also unable to prove their case 100%. This one is tough.

Although, I stand by my line of reasoning that Griffin fought through a broken arm and now sports a messed up arm because of it, and yet we are supposed to believe he took his ball and went home?

The rumor was he had a dislocated/broken jaw/couldn't hear out of one ear but the word directly from Griffin's camp states that he suffered NO injuries whatsoever and is just emotionally hurt.

Running out of the Octagon, blowing off the presser and still not speaking days later is odd for a guy whose entire career was made on his jug-eared everyman persona which comes with a smile and an "I'll fight anyone, anywhere" tag line.

If Forrest did not take a dive, he most certainly quit, and in that case he most certainly does not deserve his "Fight of the Night" bonus and his purse should be withheld pending an investigation.

MMA does not need this, period. However, just because we all love the UFC does not mean they could not be capable of such a thing, and so we must remain open to everything regardless of how much it hurts until we have absolute proof to go by.

Does GSP use steroids as BJ Penn suggests? I don't know and neither do you. So far there are no drug tests to suggest he does, but we aren't in his camp, have no access to his blood vials and are not watching him 24/7, so we can get mad at Penn for making the statement but we cannot say he is 100% wrong.

Was Sean Sherk really guilty of taking them? Was Phil Baroni after his fight against Frank Shamrock?

See where this goes?

Unless you have 100% proof, you cannot state you are right and someone is wrong. You are merely proffering your opinion in much the same way I am.

It is my opinion that Forrest Griffin could have taken a dive. Not that he did, that he could have.

It is my hope that I am indeed wrong.

Matt Pelkey, MMATorch Columnist:

No. Moving on..

Frank Hyden, MMATorch Contributor:

I don't think there's any chance that Forrest took a dive. I think Silva putting his hands to his side proves that Forrest didn't take a dive. If I were going to lose on purpose, there's no way I'd let the other guy get away with doing something like that.

Alex Williams, MMATorch Contributor:

No. It's conspiracy theory nonsense. Show me some evidence.

Wade Keller, MMATorch Supervising Editor:

I don't think Griffin took a dive, but it is one of those finishes that will have people speculating. He charged at Silva, in an already dazed and vulnerable condition, as Silva was throwing a punch to his exposed face. Silva knows how to get power behind his punches from every angle, and there was power there. In essence, Forrest charged face-first into a brick wall. All of Forrest's weight was behind him as he charged in, badly missing two punches, and leaving himself totally open to a fist to the face. Not just anyone could have pulled off what Silva did. Silva may be one of the few, in fact. But coming from Silva, it's totally believable.

For it to have been a dive, Silva would have had to have been in on it, too. Silva didn't seen the least bit surprised by Griffin going down, and if he didn't feel that was a KO punch, he would have reacted with suspicion and shame, not elation. Silva sensed - rightly so - that Griffin was in trouble already.

In fact, if Griffin was taking a dive, and Silva and Griffin were both in on it, Silva would have made his punch more believable. There would have been no way Silva, if he knew Griffin was taking a dive in round one, would have thrown a punch to end the fight that would have been suspicious. There are also much better ways to close out a fixed fight than asking a fighter to take a fake dive on a half-assed looking backwards punch. I mean, that'd be the last option you'd use if you were fixing a fight.

If the argument is Griffin was strong-armed into taking a KO dive in round one to satisfy some MMA gambling mafia who had their money on that specific finish, then Silva would have reacted with more surprise that Griffin went down like that from a punch like that. Or he'd have been in on it. There's no realistic reason for Griffin and Silva, or just Griffin, to have thrown that fight. In fact, in retrospect, it played out as it should have given the character, history, style, and expectations of the fighters involved.

The fights that are fixed, if there are any at all, are going to be by tapout because it's a lot easier to make that "look real." The last way a fixed fight would be scripted would be this way.