MMATorch Presents: The Writers' Roundtable 01/07: Who should get the first shot at Rashad - Rampage or Machida/Silva winner? What was the reason for Big Nog's loss to Frank Mir?
This is the Writers' Roundtable here at MMATorch.com. In this feature our own Matt Pelkey will be providing our questions each week, and then we'll provide the answers from members of our staff here at MMATorch.com. This week, we've got Torch Contributors Alex Williams and Frank Hyden, along with Torch Columnist Matt Pelkey and Torch Editor Jamie Penick. We've got three questions this week, and today we present questions two and three:
Who deserves first shot at Rashad; Rampage or Machida/Silva winner?
Was Big Nog's loss at UFC 92 the result of a once-in-a-lifetime performance by Frank Mir, or is this the beginning of the end for the legend?
Alex Williams, MMATorch Contributor:
- Rampage. He barely lost to Griffin and blew out Silva. Machida has never defeated a fighter of Silva's caliber. Some might point to Tito Ortiz, but I believe that due to back injuries, Tito has not been the Tito of old in years. Others may argue that Tito beat Forrest, to whom Rampage lost. Aside from the fact that many observers had Forrest ahead, the Forrest Griffin of two-and-a-half years ago is not the Forrest Griffin of today. Based on their performances to date, I think Lyoto deserves a title shot, but not ahead of Rampage. As a disclaimer, I should note that I find Lyoto's style of fighting horribly boring.
- Beginning of the end for Minotauro. Mino has not demonstrated in his UFC bouts the vintage skills of his Pride days. While Tim Sylvia was always going to be a difficult bout for him stylistically, Heath Herring was not and should not have been. While I admit again that I have typically viewed Frank Mir as a "right time, right place" sort of fighter, I only attribute part of his victory to improvements he has made to his own fighting skills.
Frank Hyden, MMATorch Contributor:
- Without question, it's Rampage. The controversial manner in which he lost the Light Heavyweight belt is more than enough reason for him to receive the first shot at Rashad. Machida vs. Silva might be a good fight but I think Rashad can and would handle either one of them. I think Rampage is the best challenger and has the best chance of beating Rashad.
- I think this was more a case of Frank Mir reaching a new level rather than Nogueira faltering and being old. Nogueira's only 32 years old so I think he's got a good 4 or 5 years of quality fighting left in him. I'm certainly not going to try to diminish what Mir accomplished; he did what no one else before him had been able to do when he stopped Nogueira early. Mir showed what he's capable of and I think he can do it again.
Matt Pelkey, MMATorch Contributor:
- This is a tricky one. At first glance, I'd say its a no-brainer that Rampage gets the first shot at Rashad. He lost his title in a razor close decision and then came back with a brutal first round KO of a top tier fighter. Machida and Thiago Silva, while having pretty won-loss records, lack the name recognition and elite competition on their resumes (ok Machida has wins over Rich Franklin and BJ Penn, but I want to see him get a win over a top 10 light-heavyweight inside the Octagon before I'm completely sold) that a Rampage possesses. Where this whole situation gets dicey is with Rampage's legal issues. They're not just gonna go away. At some point he has to be held accountable for his hit and run spree from earlier this year. Rampage has expressed interest in avenging his loss to Forrest next. Perhaps that's for the best. It'll keep 'Page out of the title picture until everything is resolved, and it gets some new blood at the top of the card. Just like in wrestling, its all about building new stars. Machida or Silva? No, not them. They'll just provide a nice notch on Rashad's belt while on his quest to being one of the best fighters in the world, along with one of the biggest stars.
- Can I say both? Frank Mir looked fantastic, plain and simple, but Big Nog just didn't seem himself. Maybe it was the long layoff? He couldn't get his timing down, and his boxing, which was supposed to be his big advantage (along with the gas tank) in this fight, looked rudimentary compared to Mir's. Regardless of what the answer is, Nog has at least one mega-fight left for him in the Octagon against Randy Couture. I think this fight was an abberation, but I don't think Nog has many years left in fighting. Fighters are like running backs in football. It doesn't matter how old they are. It matters how many miles have been put on the tires, and Big Nog has more than probably anyone else still fighting (except for Travis Fulton?). I don't know his contract situation, but I hope Nog fights out the remaining bouts, redeems himself well, and hangs it up on a positive note.
Jamie Penick, MMATorch Editor-in-Chief:
- I think it will end up being Rampage getting the first shot at Rashad. That being said, if Machida beats Thiago Silva I think he'd be making a very good case for deserving that shot at Rashad. All he does is win, and while his style does not endear himself to everyone, the results cannot be argued. He deserves to get himself a shot at the belt in 2009, especially if he continues his winning ways against Thiago Silva this month. On the other side, Quinton Jackson rebounded in perhaps the best way he could have by knocking out the man that brutalized him twice in PRIDE in Wanderlei Silva. He barely lost his title in the first place to Forrest Griffin, and while I think those two should face off against each other next, it's hard to argue from a fighter standpoint that Rampage should get a crack at Rashad Evans.
- It's really hard to say with this one, as it could for sure be for both reasons. Frank Mir looked better than he ever has, and as we've talked about here if he can train for every fight the way he did for the fight against Minotauro there aren't going to be many fighters he can't match up against. He was more prepared than ever and showed off the stand up skill that no one knew he possessed. That being said, there was something very off for Antonio Nogueira at UFC 92. The stand up game that he was expected to show off against what most considered an over-matched Frank Mir was nonexistent, and he was outclassed in an area he was supposed to have the advantage. The beatings that he has endured over his years in both the cage and the ring are showing more and more every day and every fight, and even though he is one of the best heavyweight fighters to ever compete in the sport, the fight against Mir truly may have been the beginning of the end. It's not the very end, of course, and as has been suggested a fight with Randy Couture would be a great match up for both; but the years have not been kind to the man's body, and he can't continue to take the kind of beatings in his late thirties that he did in his late twenties, so there may not be many years left for Minotauro.
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The UFC sometimes tries to make crazy claims and pass them off as
legitimate. The most obvious example would be the Anderson Silva is the
best p4p fighter in the world...I'd bet a lot of money (on really shitty
odds) that if the UFC had Fedor under contract, they would think before
they took the p4p belt away from him.
Another ridiculous claim the UFC is trying to make is that Wanderlei is
still a top tier fighter. Rampage destroyed him, and so have the last 3 of
4 fighters that he's fought. The only person he has beat was the Dean of
streakiness.
After Wand end up staring at the stars, we should be questioning when he
hangs up the gloves, not Minotauro. Forrest just lost his title, and it
wasn't the first time he'd been knocked out, why aren't people questioning
whether he should hang up his gloves? Obviously it's because he is much
younger, but why question someone who loses a championship fight. If it was
Dan Evensen or Mustapha Al-Turk who came in and beat the shit out of Nog,
maybe I'd question him. However, it was top contender and former Champion
Frank Mir who looked better than ever!
Show Nog some respect and let him fight again before you question whether
he should retire. Also, stop legitimizing the UFC's crazy claims by calling
someone who clearly isn't top tier, top tier.
One more little rant for you: The UFC is slapping their Pay Per View buyers
across the face with UFC 93. After having two Championship bouts on 92,
Couture vs. Lesnar in 91, and Silva v. Cote in 90, it is sad that the two
people main eventing the show have each lost two championship bouts in
their last 3 (for Henderson) and 6 (for Franklin) fights. Plus the
undercard is hardly exciting. Coleman ONCE WAS a heavyweight champion and
Mauricio Rua ONCE WAS the most respected middleweight in the world...
MMATorch...Please stop legitimizing the UFC's crazy claim and hold them
accountable.
EJ
07 Jan 2009, 23:30
The only crazy claims i've ever seen is people trying to claim Fedor as the
best fighter in the world when he takes off over 3 years between facing top
fighters. Compared to that any hype that the UFC tries to promote is
meaningless when you have shams like Fedor promoted by various sites and
fans and no one call them out on that sham.
Aside from that Rampage definately deserves the next LHW title shot, he
beat Wand who came off a big win over Jardine and has only lost 1 fight
since coming to the UFC.
As far as Nog goes, he looked to me just like he did in Pride the guy is
known for taking tons of punishment and still winning. He just fought a guy
who matched up great with him and was more motivated and determined in Mir.
Frank was the best HW in the world before his accident and he's finally
back to what he was before he broke his leg. Every HW better take notice
because the old Frank Mir is back and that is a nightmare for anyone who
gets in his way.
brent
08 Jan 2009, 08:39
RYAN. the ufc claiming that a. silva is the #1 p4p fighter in the world is
not crazy, its LOGICAL. putting gsp and b.j at #2 and #3 makes sense as
well considering the level of talent they have faced over thr last 3 years
as compared to fedor's. and ufc93 being on ppv is not the ufc's fault, it's
spike tv's. the ufc had planned all along to air 93 for free but spike
wouldn't let them. get your facts straight next time before you go on one
of your "rants".
matt6buckeye
08 Jan 2009, 10:50
Is it just me or would UFC 93 be the perfect card for an HBO event if the
deal hadn't fallen through? There's no way you'd put Franklin, Hendo, and
Shogun on free tv, but there's just not a ppv caliber main event. This
seems to happen two or three times a year. This is one of those in-between
shows that premium channels were made for.
