In the midst of this discussion regarding Brock Lesnar, let me stress - although I did include this in my original blog - that I don't think Brock Lesnar is the best Pound for Pound fighter in MMA. My point was that when you are a color commentator for WEC or UFC and you're discussing both the best Pound for Pound fighters and the best American-born martial artists, and you don't even gloss over the name of the Heavyweight Champion who just beat you, it comes across as a potentially lacking objectivity or motivated by spite. If another commentator left Lesnar off his list, I might not have thought twice. But if you're going to mention several contenders for P4P best and several contenders for best American-born fighter and you don't get around to at least acknowledging Lesnar, it can be seen by some viewers as an unfair exclusion.
I fully understand that "Pound for Pound" rankings is meant to differentiate fighters who would beat one another (since Lesnar would beat B.J. Penn, I think we'd all agree) from fighters who are the best in their weight category. However, I think it'd be unfair to exclude all heavyweights all the time from that classification. Some day, whether it's Lesnar or Fedor or Shane Carwin or a 15 year old kid who weighs a natural 200 pounds and still growing who is working out in Brazil right now training to enter UFC, there will be a heavyweight who regardless of his size will be considered the best all-around martial artist. His size shouldn't be used against him if he is considered the best all-around fighter.
Now, in defense of Mir's comments, he may very fairly exclude Lesnar from any P4P consideration since Lesnar is clearly winning this early in his MMA career because of his massive size advantage. He hasn't faced someone who is equal in size with more experience yet, much less someone bigger who's considered a legit top heavyweight. Mir also might not consider Lesnar a "martial artist" since he was listing American-born martial artists and Lesnar's background, other than a lifetime of amateur wrestling including an NCAA title, is limited to a few years of martial arts training.
My point was and is that Mir, for the sake of viewers who aren't reading MMA websites on a daily basis, should have acknowledged the top draw in UFC and explained why he wasn't at the top of either of those lists. Just explaining himself - and there's a great case to be made for excluding Lesnar - would have kept him from potentially looking petty by ignoring perhaps the most well known MMA fighter in the world right now (for better or for worse).
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First, let me say until now, when has anyone ever heard Lesnar's name
mentioned in a P4P discussion? We haven't cause he's had so few fights. No
surprize Mir didn't mention him. Second, and more importantly is all these
Brock haters that use his size and weight advantage as his only skill and
the only reason he wins fights. Go back to UFC 100, GSP Vs. Thiago Alves.
Alves weighed in at 170 but if I'm not mistaken they said he was 190 at
fight time. A gain of twenty pounds which is about a 12% weight gain.
Lesnar makes the cut to 265 and weighs around 290 at fight time. A gain of
25 pounds which is about a 10% weight gain. They mentioned a little bit
about Alves being a big welterweight as is with others who are "BIG" for
their weight class, but that's it. Lesnar can't get any respect for his
accomplishments, and fortunately for him he doens't care. But it's not his
fault that the HW weight limit is 206-265 and his opponents thus far
haven't sized up with him. And if he can walk around at 300 and make the
cut every time well he's well within the rules. With Carwin and some of the
behemoths on the cast of TUF 10, maybe we'll soon see what type of fighter
Lesnar truly is when size advantage is taken out of the equation.
Meanwhile, the UFC HW Champ with only 5 fights under his belt continues to
gain experience and skills waiting for the next one to step up to the
plate.
blarg
11 Aug 2009, 20:01
UFC needs a no-weight class where anybody can fight anybody like the old
days. Also Frank Mir is terrible, nobody should let him talk about anything
all he does is get beat up
Ryan Follin
11 Aug 2009, 22:30
Totally agree with you Slade - I think Brock is an exceptional athlete. He
dominated Mir in the rematch and people play it off as "he's just bigger".
Size does not always mean victory. Tim Sylvia was flattened by Randy
Couture with just one punch. BJ Penn beat Matt Hughes. And the example of
Alves getting owned by GSP is great. Brock Lesnar has an ability to wrestle
and uses his size with his ground and pound skills. It's ignorant to say
that Lesnar isn't a legitimate MMA fighter.
David carlson
11 Aug 2009, 22:39
Brock is a good athlete. Very strong and also fast for his size. But it's
too soon to even dream of mentioning pfp best fighter. Not enough fights.
Anyways I say even at his weight class Anderson silva would pose a threat
against him. Call me crazy but I say Anderson could beat Brock anytime,
anywhere.
Victor
11 Aug 2009, 23:46
Lesnar will eat Anderson when he gets his mits on him. Lesnar is learning
very fast. The best thing that happened to Lesnar was getting submitted. He
does not want that to happen again, ever. After he smashes more faces I
hope he becomes a little more humble. I hope he gets to fight Fedor in the
next 1-2 years.
Frank Hyden
12 Aug 2009, 23:18
I don't think you're crazy, David Carlson, I agree with you. I would take
Anderson Silva in a fight against Brock Lesnar any day of the week. In a
couple of years, that may be different. Silva has more skill, size is
overrated. Give Brock more time to learn, though, and you might have a
different story.
I also agree with you, Victor. The best thing to happen to Brock was being
submitted. It made him hungrier.
Sam
12 Aug 2009, 23:52
I can't remember him laying on top of randy and he beat him.
