Interviews
MMATORCH INTERVIEW: UFC lightweight Dan Downes talks NAFC bout on May 6, working with Ben Askren and Anthony Pettis and much more
May 6, 2011 - 9:30:36 PM MMATORCH INTERVIEW: UFC lightweight Dan Downes talks NAFC bout on May 6, working with Ben Askren and Anthony Pettis and much more

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By: Rich Hansen, MMATorch Columnist

On Friday May 6, former WEC fighter Dan Downes, currently under UFC contract, will be fighting outside of the UFC under the NAFC banner. Last week Downes took time out of his training schedule to talk to MMA Torch's Rich Hansen about his mindset going into this fight, the mentality of a fighter, Ben Askren and Anthony Pettis, and much more.

MMA TORCH: Last time I talked to you was before your fight against Zhang Tie Quan. The first round of that fight didn't go exactly how you wanted it to go. When you were sitting on the stool in between rounds, were you able to block out everything else and just focus on what you had to do in the next two rounds, or was your mind going all over the place thinking about the UFC contract that was on the line and other factors like that?

DAN DOWNES: During the Zhang fight, the first round I knew I was terrible. But I finished that first round feeling good, which sounds kind of weird but I remember that I survived. But near the end I got a small reversal and once I got that and I was on top of him briefly, I felt good. And then also when we got up and I could look at him, I could see in his eyes that he blew his load. I knew he was done for.

Obviously if I got up and he was calm and cool and everything I would have felt different, like, "Ah shoot, that didn't go well." And like I told people, if you go 0-2 to start [with Zuffa] you don't have to worry about going 0-3 because you don't really have that chance. So I saw him and I got that spring of hope and I felt pretty good, which seems pretty weird considering how bad that first round went.

I even watched [the fight] today and I swore I was going to lose, but then I was like, "Oh wait, I know how this ends." But yeah, I felt really good about it, and I thought I got [the rest of the fight]. And then the second and third rounds went smoother. But when I fight, I just concentrate on that one moment. You have to do that, focus on that once thing, or else you're going to get punched in the face.

MMA TORCH: As a result of that victory you're now under UFC contract, and you're going to be fighting for Duke Roufus' NAFC promotion on May 6 here in Milwaukee. It's pretty rare for the UFC to allow their fighters that are under contract to fight outside of the UFC, even for smaller organizations like the NAFC that aren't in direct competition with them. Were you given the chance to take a UFC fight in the aftermath of the Zhang fight, or were you told by them that they didn't have a fight for you and you should look outside the UFC for a fight? Essentially, was this their idea or your idea?

DOWNES: It was hard, because the lightweight division is so deep. Obviously if I wanted to sit around and things like that I could have. But I know I have a lot of improving to do so I'm really appreciative that they're giving me an opportunity to do this. It's a calculated risk. But it's a risk every time you get into a cage to fight another grown man. But yeah, it's real deep and I didn't want to stay on the shelf that long.

MMA TORCH: Originally Michael Johnson was scheduled to fight in the main event of this card. When did you find out that you were going to be on the card instead of Johnson?

DOWNES: I found out maybe a week or two ago. And I was in really good shape. I felt like if anything came up on short notice I would be ready to take it. So I'm in really good shape, not just not-fat shape. I was actually in shape for this since we weren't really sure when I would go. We were thinking maybe end of summer and I was like oh my gosh, I have to keep up my pace for three more months, it would be terrible. The timing was right the way things worked out.

MMA TORCH: When you take a fight against an opponent you don't know a whole lot about, how do you prepare for that? Do you try to figure out as much as you can about him and tailor your game to his skill set, or do you just work on what you do and whatever happens happens?

DOWNES: Whenever you first start out, you don't have a lot of information. You can try to... YouTube only goes so far. Watching a fight he had two years ago won't do me much good. At the end of the day, a fight's a fight, so I have to get out there and do what I do. A lot of these guys, you know, are pretty good at some things but not at other things. So you kind of have to do it by feel. Even the same thing happens in a fight. You know, I could have game planned and watch hours of film on this guy, but I go there and what I game plan for might not work. And then I've got to adjust. You have to have a broad skill set. If you're only good at one thing and they shut down the one thing you're in trouble.

MMA TORCH: Are there any similarities comparing this fight with the Horodecki fight (which Downes also took on short notice), or are they two totally separate things?

DOWNES: They're two totally separate events. Obviously other than the short notice thing, I mean. Other than that I'm in a lot better shape, I'm a lot stronger, and a better fighter. I mean if anything the one big thing would be my mindset. Going into Horodecki I was the underdog. I had everything to gain and he had everything to lose. But now the roles are kind of reversed. I have everything to lose; I'm the headliner now, I'm the favorite, so the pressure is more on me.

MMA TORCH: Are you feeling any pressure?

DOWNES: Just the normal pressure of every other fight. I'm actually kind of surprised how calm I've been, considering. But it's like, even Pat Barry says the same thing; "It's like man, I always want to fight until I find out I have a fight. Then oh man, I'm not ready…" That's the thing. Even before I was like, "I want to fight right now. I'm in such good shape. I want to show everyone what I've got." And then they're like, "So do you want to fight that guy," and I'm like, "Uh, yeah. I guess..." So there's always the normal nervousness of anything in the fight. But by the time you get your hands wrapped and all ready to go, that will all go out the window.

MMA TORCH: I want to change course a little bit and get into the mindset of being a fighter. Georges St. Pierre talks consistently about how he feels fear. Of course he's talking more about fear of losing than just primal fear, but what about yourself? Like you said, your job is to go into a cage to fight a grown man. Do you ever just feel fear.

DOWNES: Oh yeah. Definitely.

MMA TORCH: How do you get around it?

DOWNES: Um, I guess you know it's just a basic adrenaline, fight or flight. So you've got to pick one or the other and once you're locked in the cage that kind of eliminates [flight].

MMA TORCH: Fear of pain; fear of losing; fear of looking bad?? What is it you're feeling?

DOWNES: Yeah. There're all those things. Part of it is... this is a very ego-driven sport. That's what I tell people. Losing a fight is different than, say, losing a basketball game. If we go out there and we play a basketball game and lose, it's like oh well, big deal. Even in the NBA, you can say it's your livelihood and all that…

MMA TORCH: Unless you're Andrew Bogut, you're going to walk away in one piece.

DOWNES: Yeah. And at the end of the evening you have your teammates and everything else. If I go out there and have a bad basketball game and didn't shoot well or something, I have 81 more games in a regular season to go do it right. But with this, if I lose, not only did I get beat up, physically beat up in front of my friends and family, I might not be able to fight for another four months. So there's a blessing and a curse. If I look awesome, everyone loves me for four months. You're only as good as your last fight. And if you do bad, nobody will give you any credit. So there's that fear.

And then there's the physical. I guess you worry about the guy hitting you and stuff. But I don't have that fear of... I don't think I'm going to get hurt. That's why with sparring and stuff you get used to it. I don't want to get cut or my nose broken or my face bashed in or anything. But that's just vanity; that's not really a fear.

My last fight, you could say my career was on the line. And now with this [fight], you could say that it's the same kind of thing. So it's a lot of pressure. Try to think of another sport, there's never really one [where an athlete] gets [released] based on one bad game or anything like that, so that's always out there [in fighting].

MMA TORCH: One other mindset question here that I want to touch upon. Have you ever walked into the cage against someone you really didn't like and really wanted to beat them up for personal reasons, or have you not experienced real distaste for an opponent yet?

DOWNES: I've never had like a personal reason... The one thing I have noticed is that the more I have been fighting..... I remember my first few fights it was like, hatred. And a lot of that, it's good in some sense because you have to have some mindset. But it's bad because it's that aggression that is not focused... Unfocused aggression isn't any good in a fight. I'’s good when you're 0-0 or 1-0 or something. But as you get better, you can't just go mindlessly out there swinging. So as I've gotten better that aggression and dislike is still there... It's kind of how Nick Diaz does it. I'm just trying to hate you right now. But he respects a lot of the guys, but he fights the same fight every time. So sure you have to get in that mindset; you can't treat it like a sparring session.


MMA TORCH: If you were to fight someone that had an active dislike for that, would fight him differently than you would fight someone you had no feelings about?

DOWNES: I think that would be a hard fight because you'd want to... Obviously you always want to win, but you'd want to hurt them. But then you'd end up doing dumb things.

MMA TORCH: It would change your proper mindset.

DOWNES: Yeah, exactly. You know sometimes you get guys who come to spar and they don't know whatever etiquette or something. And they're kind of a jerk, or ignorant people who come in here visiting, thankfully not the regular guys. You try so hard to beat them up. And even like, you get some guy coming in trying to cock off, and I'll [want to] knock him down, but it doesn't work too well because it'll go worse than you want in the first place. So you've got to find that proper balance. I think it would be really hard to fight someone that I actually, like, personally dislike.

MMA TORCH: Which is why you're the nicest guy in the sport.

DOWNES: (laughs) Yeah.

MMA TORCH: Going back to the fear thing for a second here... What's scarier, sparring with Anthony Pettis, or actually fighting?

DOWNES: (long pause) Well, it's like (when sparring with Pettis), it's like, "What in the hell is he going to do now?" That's the thing. It's like fear of the unknown. After going with him, I can see it in his eyes. I don't get caught off guard as often as his [real] opponents because when you spar with someone enough you can learn their tendencies. But I can see it. I can see the way he'll just do something with his eyes or move his shoulders, and I'm like, "Ah shit! He's about to do something, and then he spins three times, backflip, and kick me in the head." And then I'll be like, "Damn it! I knew it (was coming), but I didn't know what to do!"

MMA TORCH: So he's Jaden Smith?

DOWNES: (laughs) Yeah, that's it. But that's the thing. When we go out there (to spar), he's just a cold blooded killer. But not me. You get the knots in your stomach and your heart elevates. The thing is, you've just got to harness it. You can let it take you over. Or you can try to harness that energy and kind of use it to your advantage. I guess it's like the ultimate adrenaline rush. Some people jump out of planes. Or maybe do coke. Whatever. Like this is just that feeling of, everything is heightened, you know. Everything just kind of slows down, and you're full aware of everything. It's a strange kind of, I don't know, physical response.

MMA TORCH: Since your last fight in December, Ben Askren has moved back up here and joined your team full time. Have you been able to roll with him yet? And if so, what has he brought to the team and to your individual game?

DOWNES: He's been busy setting up his new wrestling academy (in Hartland, WI), so I'll be training with him more soon. But it is the most frustrating thing I've ever done. Because he'll take me down and then he'll be twenty different places. You'll try to move and then he'll be all over you. To see that level of wrestling, it's kind of scary. If I could even get a tenth of what he's got, it will definitely open up things even more for me. And the same thing [for Askren] when he gets his striking up.

The nice thing about being well-rounded is that it lets you be more aggressive. If you get put on your back and you're dead on arrival, then you can't strike as aggressively, you can't open up. That's why Anthony [Pettis] can do so many creative things, because even if you get him on his back he'll submit you. I'm just trying to get to that point where no matter where I'm at, I can be more aggressive with my jiu-jitsu and stuff. I'm definitely looking forward to working more with Ben.

MMA TORCH: Where do you see yourself in your career two years from now? Five years from now? Or don't you have those kinds of goals yet?

DOWNES: I don't. The best laid plans go to waste. There's not a whole lot of security in this. Whether it be your own performance, you get cut, injuries, you know? Thankfully Alan Belcher (who is recovering from a near career-ending eye injury) is able to come back from his thing. But you never know what can happen. I hope that doesn't happen but who knows. I could take a fight and something really bad happens like I tear my Achilles [tendon] or something and you just never know. Look, I wouldn't be doing this, and I know Duke wouldn't let me be doing this if he didn't think I had a shot. This isn't like some pipe-dream or anything. It's still weird for me too. I'm just going to try to enjoy the ride as long as I can.