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Frank Shamrock was the guest on Wrestling on Tap this on 6/09/07. He discussed the 2007 season of the San Jose Razorclaws, Phil Baroni's comments from K-1 Dynamite, Dana White, Vince McMahon and everything in between. The interview is about at the 19:30 min mark in the show. Wrestling on Tap is hosted by Mark Hetrick, Matt Demeester, and Rick Walters.
Mark: Frank Shamrock, what's going on?
Shamrock: Well hey guys, just ah, getting out of bed man.
Mark: Yeah, its too early over there. Matt: Its not that early come on.
Shamrock: 9 am on a Saturday is pretty early for me
Mark: So Frank, you are involved in quite a few things nowadays including the IFL, You are the coach of the San Jose Razorclaws. You season is over now right?
Shamrock: Yep, were done.
Mark: yeah, you didn't have that successful of a season this year. What happened?
Shamrock: Ah, well, you know, the first half of the season was pretty much my fault I wasn't really available to help guide these guys, we got a young team and the second half was just the roll of the dice. We fought a couple of the best teams in the league and kind of scrapped by by the skin of our teeth. Like I said we have a young team and we are just now gelling and getting things together and 08' will be a real season for us.
Mark: You had a lot of really close matches, really close fights this year, including in Chicago, and some of those fights were really close that you guys had including the big heavyweight bout, after the fight at the press conference, you seem pretty pissed about that one.
Shamrock: You know, you win some you lose some. I felt that we'd really won that one. Big Dan really worked hard on that one, but its tough when you have such a short fight, 12 min is not a lot of time for that, to get it on and sometimes people view it differently and I thought that we had it. You win some, you lose some.
Mark: Do you like coaching?
Shamrock: I loved it man, it is so fulfilling, gratifying and it also keeps me in shape man. Those guys, they are young, they are hungry and their job is to beat me everyday and it keeps me on my toes.
Rick: So the coaching doesn't interfere with say the training that you have for your fight on June 22nd, Elite XC Strike Force show?
Shamrock: Nah, you know what in the beginning it interfered but it interfered because I was doing my other businesses. I had to stop working and going training. Now that I am just training full time it turned out to be a huge asset. These guys are always there and they always wanting to kick my butt.
Rick: I am not sure if you watched the Elite XC/K-1 Dynamite show, Phil Baroni was on that. Mark: He is a little outspoken. Rick: Did you happen hear his comments?
Shamrock: I did not.
Rick: Do you want to hear them?
Shamrock: Yeah, Sure
Matt: He had some interesting things to say
(Phil Baroni audio plays)
(Laugher)
Mark: What do you have to say about that?
Shamrock: Well I think he is just absolutely wonderful.
(Laughter)
Mark: He has never been searching for words, that guy.
Shamrock: Nah, Nah, I think that he is the perfect guy. The hardest thing in my career, I have always been the one to sell the fight and that has to step outside my boundaries a little bit and get things going; Phil is a meathead, he is perfect you put him on and he just goes like the energizer bunny. He is perfect for selling fights and comes out and fights hard, I think he is wonderful.
Matt: Now, there has to be a sense of self-satisfaction when you are getting in the ring, when you hear those kind of comments just knowing that you are going be able to beat the crap out of him. Is that a motivator for you going into a fight, just hoping that someone talks a whole bunch of shit so you can knock them out?
Shamrock: That isn't me though, honestly, it doesn't mean much to me. I like it because I know that there are people out there that think it is exciting. It gets the ears and the eyeballs on us, but fighting is fighting is fighting. Its numbers, its technique, its art, it has little to do with shit talking. I know that it is necessary, but I just love fighting. I study body types, I study people and Phil is a super tough guy who has fought a lot of tough guys, but he talks a good game and I just hope that he brings a good game.
Rick: Speaking of studying people, sorry we are kind of jumping all over the place here
Shamrock: That's alright that is how my brain works.
Rick: In a recent interview that you did, you seemed to have come off as not having a certain fondness for Dana White.
Shamrock: laughs
Rick: Now with Zuffa kind buying everything up, what do you think of Dana White being involved with all of these promotions?
Shamrock: It is a sad day for our sport. Whenever you monopolize an industry you inherently stop its growth in certain areas. They just have way too much money and power and now they are starting to exercise that power and every show that they don't own. Short term gratification for the fans and I know they appreciate it in the long run the sport is going to lose out and I feel bad about that.
Mark: You're right it is exciting for the fans because now we get to see all these match-ups that we have always wanted to see, I agree with you because they are pretty much going to control the payday as well.
Shamrock: They are going to set everything in the sport at prices that they own and control. They are going to monopolize and control the entire industry, this is what happened to boxing. In boxing it took twenty years and it has only taken us three years. We have got some trouble ahead.
Mark: That is why we are such big fans of the IFL. The team concept is a great idea. Matt: Do you think that the team concept is the future of mixed martial arts?
Shamrock: I think the future of MMA is stars, real people, doing extraordinary things and whether that is on a team or guys doing it by themselves. The team concept appeals to a larger group of people you have your team, town, city, your group and I think that it is going to catch on as we move further into the sport. People are eventually ask, "Why are we beating each other up in a cage again?" They are going to be like "Why are we doing this?" What was the bigger reason for us beating each other up? And teams support that reason. That is my city, that is my town, that is my group, my people. That is a bigger reason then, Phil Baroni is a meathead and me going and beating him up. I think that it is defiantly going to catch on.
Mark: You speak of stars, who are the stars that you like to watch in the MMA world these days?
Shamrock: I watch Randy Couture and that is pretty much it.
(laughter)
Mark: Well if you are going to pick one guy, that would be the guy to pick.
Shamrock: You know, he is the star and I love Chuck Liddell but I didn't pay to watch the fight, I count on YouTube.
Mark: All eight seconds of it
Shamrock: Right
Mark: So how is your training camp going for your fight against Phil on the 22nd?
Shamrock: It has been great man, all my boys have really pitched in and I have got Maurice Smith out here who has always been my coach and he is kicking my butt. I brought my old wrestling coach back and these guys just whoop me. It has been good though I thought when I hit about 33, you know my body started aching and I really started questioning should I make a go of it? Should I try to be the best again? Or should I just cash out, hang out and have a good time and I just want to keep going.
Mark: You say you are turning 33 and then you see and guy like Randy Couture and how old is he now? Rick: He is gotta be 42.
Shamrock: Yeah
Mark: When you are in your thirties, a lot of guys are in their prime, like Chuck and Randy
Shamrock: You reach your physical prime at 30 or so, you reach your vascular prime around 35. Then what you do with it after that is your business.
Mark: So your basically just a young pup in the MMA world?
Shamrock: I am a young guy man, I am starting over
Mark: You are still wet behind the ears
Shamrock: You know, people ask me, where do you see yourself in the rankings? What rankings? I don't see myself anywhere. I am who I am and if I get to the top great, I will put another belt on my big stack of belts. I am here to be the best for myself, for my family, for my community. If I get knocked out horribly and I never win another fight at least I am doing the thing I love and I am trying to do my best.
Mark: Speaking of your belts, whenever you hear UFC talking about their great fighters of the past, your name is never brought up. Does that ever piss you off?
Shamrock: Ahhhhh..
Mark: You didn't lose as their champion.
Shamrock: Yeah, but that shows you their mentality and the future of our sport. That is, if you don't play ball with the monopoly they are going to try and erase you from history and that is not a real sport, that is not real history. You can't rewrite history because someone doesn't have a contract. That is unfortunately where our sport is at because these guys are going to own everything.
Mark: It is very WWE Esq. If professional wrestling doesn't... Matt: Well, Dana White has been called the Vince McMahon of the MMA world.
Shamrock: He is, and when I fought, I fought the best guys in the world. We would sit down and say, who is the best? Alright lets fight him. It is different now, now it is similar to wrestling. There are stars on TV, and then they will have them fight the people they say are the best. We are getting close to that pro wrestling stage..
Mark: Oh boy that is scary. Rick: Speaking of wrestling, what do you think of guys like Brock Lesnar making his MMA debut, and I think tonight Tommy Morrison is fighting someone in AZ? What do you think if the cross over?
Shamrock: Well, I look at our sport like Toughman. Remember when Toughman came out and it was all rural, then it went to television, then it went to PPV. Then it became the whole celebrity thing, it became all the rage and someone went, "What are we doing?" Then someone got killed then public opinion changed and we are on that same path. I think all the athletes and stars will eventually go, "lets do MMA cause its all cool and popular." Its different and interesting and it brings eyeballs to the sport, but are these people martial artists? Are they living a martial lifestyle? Are they studying the art of fighting? I don't know?
Rick: I don't know either and I think that a perfect example of this was at the Dynamite show, where I didn't think that Johnny Morton was going to get up.
Shamrock: Yeah, that didn't look good.
Rick: Speaking of the Dynamite thing, you are now a part of Elite XC, which quite frankly I really enjoy, especially Gina Carano.
Shamrock: Well, you got my vote.
(laughter)
WOT: Yeah, without a doubt. I just wish I could get her to return my phone calls.
Shamrock: You have got to call her before midnight ya know.
(laughter)
Rick: Well, I got to wait till my wife goes to sleep.
Shamrock: Right, right.
(laughter)
Rick: Now with Elite XC, they seem to have quite a few, nice, I say nice I mean entertaining fighters. Like Jake Shields, Mark's favorite "Crazy Horse." Do you see that with the backing of Showtime, it being a major player and kind of rub UFC out a little and make them a little nervous?
Shamrock: Well I believe that they can. I also believe that anybody with a good business model and a strong business plan can compete in the business. There is so much, I mean, when I started there was no money. I was like, "How are we going to pay for this fight? How are we going to pay for the training of this fight?" Now there is so much money and there is so much attention, eyeballs and television are jumping in the business and most of or 90 percent of them know nothing about the business. Its hot, its popular, they are jumping on the bandwagon. Anyone with a good business model and some knowledge of the business can make money. I know within the next year you are going to see five or six more companies of the same caliber come out.
Mark: Are you serious? Rick: That is too much damn TV to watch. Matt: My TiVO can't handle it all.
Shamrock: I look at it like, I live here in silicon valley and the bay area. I look at it like the whole web thing, ya know the whole internet process, at one point you could just put a computer back together you could get a job here paying 80,000 a year. Everyone was rushing to the industry because it was the next big thing. I think that you are going to see the same thing with MMA and UFC has the first starter advantage they have the strongest brand in the industry but they are not good business people. They make crazy horrible mistakes and they always have. When the real money comes and the real people come, the real business people that have multi-media partners and they own networks you are going to see a completely different product. Who knows what that product will be, I am hoping that it is still MMA, but we are going to face some over saturation in the business. But the people are going to say that its a good product, its a bad product and I am going to buy the good one.
Matt: Right Mark: I think that we are already at that point of over saturation, with UFC on 3-4 nights a week, WEC on and the IFL on. There is Quite a bit on TV now. Matt: Now the TapOut reality show.
Shamrock: I haven't heard of the TapOut reality show, what is that about?
Mark: It is on after WEC, the guys that run the TapOut clothing line doing a reality show about uh... Rick: Basically it just follows Mask, or Charles Lewis, I am not sure what you know him by. It follows him and his two guys around the country finding fighters to sponsor.
Shamrock: Uh.
Rick: It is kind of entertaining, for me being in Detroit, seeing at least now I know why "The Mask" was in the UFC video game years ago.
Shamrock: (laughs) right.
Rick: It is interesting to see the behind the scenes kinda thing, but at the same time I am from Detroit so seeing three guys from California doing their California type thing, its like, can't you just be a real person?
Shamrock: I always go back to this. People go to fights, people stop at car accidents but they don't hang out. Unless you know somebody.
(laughter)
Shamrock: People go to see fights because it is exciting and sexy. You don't hang out unless you really know somebody and really connect with them. Unless there is something that ties those people together, some type of community. A common bond, a common thread. The future of our sport are these people being exposed as real people and other real people going, that is my guy. Or, I like that guy getting over the fact that there is huge sex appeal in a fight and it is a lifestyle. That it is a unique way of being a man in this modern era and earning a living for your family or whatever it is that you do. That is the future and I think that the future of our television product is exposing these people for who they really are, if they are good people. If they are not good people then exposing some of that too.
Rick: I was on your website, frankshamrock.com and saw that you do seminars. What does one entail and how does someone go about booking one?
Shamrock: I do about 10 or 15 a year, I used to do quite a bit more, but a basic seminar is Shamrock Submission fighting. It is a system that I wrote, it took about 10 years to write. It is your basic MMA complete fighting system and program. Usually I taylor each seminar for wherever I am going. I usually go to pretty large conferences or martial arts events or I go to personal schools. I try to taylor to what ever martial system that they have. Try and catch them up to date on where they need to be in MMA for instruction of fighting. I am like the twisted scientist kind of guy, that are your numbers, that is what you are missing let me show you these elements and go and do your thing. To book it just contact me.
