UFC Events
UFC 86 STAFF ROUND TABLES: Cattelane, Ennis, Hyden, Penick
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Jul 7, 2008 - 9:56:09 PM

Jerry Cattelane, MMATorch Columnist: (7.5)

Where to begin? I watched the show Sunday morning after working the overnight. I studiously avoided any sort of results information until tucking home and flipping on the DVR. I had heard the Gurgel/Miller fight was a barnburner, so I was hoping to see that. Plus, with the recent UFC PPVs showing a large number of fights on the show, I was encouraged tonight would be no different.

The most impressive thing about Tyson Griffin's win was his patience. For a guy in his 13th fight and only 24 years old, he fought a very well-reasoned, well paced fight. Unfortunately, it made "Maximus" look like a guy whose best days may be in the rear view mirror. Despite Griffin's prowess and his very respectable record, it is hard seeing him as a legitimate challenger to the current champion in B.J. Penn. Then again, you say that about everybody, but Griffin's lack of height and reach will be a serious problem should he find himself across the cage from the champion. This, of course, assumes that Penn will continue to defend the lightweight title. Food for discussion, if nothing else.

It's a mixed bag that Koscheck/Lytle came so early in the card. Either it kept you tuned in the for the rest of the card or, if it had come later, would have hyped you for the title bout. Either way, gore is not a bad thing for the UFC demographic. If it was, blading would be an outdated process. Anyway, Koscheck is just brutal on the ground and I was really surprised this didn't get stopped in the second round. Having typed that however, I'm not sure there was a point that Lytle wasn't "intelligently" defending himself. Despite getting his scalp ripped off, he looked to have his wits about him the whole time. Koscheck looked equally surprised that it wasn't stopped and, this, I think was a significant educational piece in the development of Koscheck. After thoroughly dominating a man for five minutes and getting as close to a 10-6 round as you might ever see, Kos relented and tried to let the clock wind down. And, he almost got knocked out. The lesson is that when you have the upper hand, continue to punch with it (metaphorically, that is). When they were stood up late in the third, Kos should have shot right back in and taken Lytle down, who clearly had no gas and little blood left. We'll see if he learned anything, but for now, Koscheck sports a pretty impressive resume in the welterweight division.

Joe Stevenson rebounds and, in my opinion, that's good for the division. I was impressed with how big Tibau was. Oddly enough, I really like his chances against Penn, should they ever meet. At least, I like them as much as anyone else's. Still, with the loss, he'll be back down the food chain for a bit. Stevenson rebounds, but with Penn's anticipation of a bout with St. Pierre somewhere in late 2008, early 2009, the lightweight belt might be in limbo.

I still don't understand how Cote/Almeida made it to the main card much less the penultimate fight. Is the middleweight division really SO thin that the winner really gets a title shot? Why not put these guys against Silva in a handicap match? I think it would be more competitive. Blah fight for me. It took a lot of steam out of a very eventful card. You had Griffin dominating his way to a win with good late striking, then a bloodbath, then a surprise submission, then this snoozer. I think "experts" might have seen this coming. If you're hyping a number one contender's matchup, it's helpful to have a couple of names that are impressive. Cote was on the outside looking in about a year ago and Almeida has come out of nowhere. If this didn't illustrate what a mess middleweight is right now, nothing will.

The world continues to underestimate Forrest Griffin. Whether you think he won the fight or not, he established himself as one of the big boys for sure. I found this to be more of a historical waypoint than Serra's championship win as far as TUF is concerned. The simple reason being that Griffin fought his way up to the title shot as opposed to having a contrived opportunity. This isn't taking anything away form Serra, but the original premise of TUF was to take relatively unknown fighters and have them compete for a chance at the big time. We all heard Dana White about "It's the opportunity of a ******* lifetime". Well, Griffin has cashed it in. Say what you will, but the UFC has replaced one affable champion with another. The only thing that surprised me was that in round three, it seemed Griffin didn't pursue the leg kicks as aggressively as he did before, nor did he take that advantage and cash it into a takedown where he clearly had the advantage. And, I could have done without the numerous profanities in his post-fight interview. I understand you just won the title and all, but still...

A historical card to be sure. I'll always be up for a Tyson Griffin fight. The Koscheck/Lytle bloodbath was worth seeing, if for nothing else than to see how tough these guys really are. Stevenson/Tibau was good. Cote/Almeida wasn't. And, then you had a five round championship fight that really could have ended at any time. 6 fights including the Guillard demolition was reasonable. And, with a free show coming up on the 19th, it's too soon to complain, but, for the love of Randy Rowles, enough with the movie previews!

Shawn Ennis, MMATorch Columnist: (7.0)


The main event was spectacular, but it wasn't quite enough to make me wholeheartedly recommend the show to those who might otherwise need to hold on to 45 bucks. It seems to me, from the way the show was paced, that the producers knew going into the event that there could potentially be a lot of decisions/late round endings. True to form, no fight on the main card ended before the third round. I thought the Stevenson-Tibau fight was pretty good, but the Almeida-Cote fight was horribly disappointing, and the Griffin-Aurelio fight probably should have been on the undercard. Of course, as far as significance goes on paper, there was no other fight you could have used to replace it on the main card, but that was all but a certain dominant decision win for Griffin. As for the main event, that's my current favorite for fight of the year. I didn't agree with the decision (I thought it was a draw), but that didn't take away from the greatness of the fight. And the more I think about it, the more I think that Rampage should only need one victory before he gets a rematch for the title. And I'm glad he mentioned that he won't be taking 9 months between fights anymore, because holding the title hostage for the sake of TUF is just silly.

Frank Hyden, MMATorch Contributor: (8.5)

First, the undercard. I understand the thinking in letting Chris Lytle continue fighting despite his loss of blood but I don't think he could have done anything even if Josh Koscheck had both hands tied behind his back. That's not a knock on Lytle, either. He had just lost some much blood by this end of the 3rd that he didn't have anything left in the tank. Koscheck looked fantastic. Tyson Griffin had a good, but not great, fight against Marcus Aurelio. Maybe my expectations are set too high when it comes to Tyson Griffin fights, though. Joe Stevenson pulling out the victory over Gleison Tibau moves him closer to a rematch against BJ Penn.

I don't really think Patrick Cote has much chance against Anderson Silva but upsets happen. I don't think Cote's fight against Ricardo Almeida was very good and I surely don't think that he should get a title match because of it but I guess it's a case of who else is there for Silva to fight? Maybe Yushin Okami should get the title shot.

I personally thought Rampage won the fight or, at the very least, it should have been a draw. I really hope Forrest wins his next fight convincingly because I like Forrest and I don't want to see people calling him a fluke champion or anything like that. He fought a great fight. His strategy was superb and he executed it well. Even with the controversial decision it was still a fantastic fight.

Jamie Penick, MMATorch Editor-in-Chief: (7.5)

This was definitely an enjoyable show, with one hell of a main event fight. The under card had some high points, but wasn't the strongest they've had recently. Also, with the Championship fight going five rounds, there were only six fights, which cut down from what we've been getting the last couple of shows. That being said, with how that fight went, that's a very small complaint.

Tyson Griffin looked good in what was a forgettable win for him, at least in comparison to his past few fights. Stevenson pulled out a big win in elusive fashion, as Gleison Tibau was winning that fight and looked good doing so. He'll need a couple of fights to rebound, but he's a fighter who can dominate his weight class with some improvement. I'm not a Josh Koschek fan, but he's looking better with each fight, and if he does indeed decide to drop down to challenge BJ Penn, that could make for a hell of a match-up. Lytle showed a lot of heart to finish that fight despite losing a ton of blood. Cote-Almeida did not belong in the semi main event slot, and I don't see Cote lasting past the first half of round one against Anderson Silva. Finally, Melvin Guillard got himself a highlight reel victory in the :36 seconds he had in the Octagon. He needs to climb up the ladder against much better competition, but the kid's got something there.

As for the main event, I absolutely did not disagree with the decision. In fact, I had it scored 48-46 myself, but I can see how it could have been thought to be a draw, as both rounds three and four were extremely close. Forrest absolutely took a 10-8 round in the second, and that was the difference in this fight. The final three rounds were very tactical, and a bit tentative at times, but both guys took chances pressing the action, and I felt they split three and four after both had taken a decisive round early, and Forrest won the fifth and deserved the win. I can't wait to see a rematch, but I think there are plenty of great fights going forward for both fighters, and the chase back for Rampage should be nearly as exciting as the defenses for Forrest.

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