It's funny that Carwin is trying to say Brock is talking down to him when it's Carwin who's CONSTANTLY one-upping Lesnar as if he's got little man syndrome. Lesnar comes into his fights at 280? Carwin says he'll be 290. Lesnar has 4X gloves? Suddenly Carwin gets 5X gloves. This goes on and on, Carwin is full of himself and seems ridiculously jealous or something. I can't wait to see him get smashed into the undercards.

Also, it's a pity Carwin won't shut up. As has shown to be apparent, Lesnar puts on a hell of a show after beating people who talk shit about him. :)

I see it the opposite Anon..Lesnar is the bully here. I like how respectfull Shane is. What a classy guy. The difference between Shane and Brock is like night and day. I feel that most MMA fans can appreciate Shanes humility.

Yeah, because what he just said was really classy and humble. Brock isn't the one insulting his opponent's intelligence and maturity - sure he's talking some trash but he's keeping everything fight related and not making personal attacks.

Guess I'll be rooting for Brock again solely because of the shit he takes from everyone.

Brock may not be insulting anyone's intelligence, however, one can't deny that his reputation is not one of respect toward his opponents. He said so himself. "I didn’t have any respect for Randy [Couture], I didn’t have any respect for Heath [Herring], I don’t have any respect for Frank,” he said. “There’s going to be a winner, there’s going to be a loser. As soon as you step in and have any respect for your opponent, I think you become the loser a hell of a lot sooner"

Shane is one class act! He has been humble for all of his opponents, including Lesnar. In my view, Shane is a realist and is saying what most of the MMA world already thinks.

Like him, hate him, whatever but doesn't Lesnar seem to be able to get people talking about his fights? BJ Penn talks alot of trash about his opponents to-and in the case of GSP is still doing it, but no one gives him the grief they do Lesnar. Had Lesnar never competed in the WWE I don't think as many people would be so down on him. I remember seeing this Ken Shamrock guy on WWF(as it was known then) and finding out he came from this UFC thing. Now when he quit WWF did he suddenly lose all credibility because he competed as a pro-wrestler? As I've become a fan of mma I don't think Shamrock lost any stock for taking Vince's money so why do so many hold that against Lesnar?

Fair enough Joe, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on Lesnar.

prairiedog,
It's the fact that a huge guy with some skill and athletic ability comes in and completely ransacks the most prestigious HW division in the world with relative ease. His only moment where he was losing was the 5 seconds of being knee-barred by Frank Mir in his 2nd MMA fight. Coupled with the fact that he was from the WWE and everyone cracked jokes about how the fake wrestler was going to lose, then ended up making them look stupid by winning... it's just a bunch of hurt egos in my opinion.
Brock was disrespected since the moment it was announced he was coming into the UFC. Every time he wins, it just infuriates the haters even more. At this point, there's nothing he could do to win over the hardcore fan-base, so why try? Appeal to the casual fan-base instead - it's larger anyways.

I should point out that my first sentence plays out a lot on forums. It's almost like fans can't believe what they are seeing, and try to come up with other reasons Lesnar wins.

He just uses his size! He's just a wrestler! He takes steroids! As if these three things alone are enough (history would suggest otherwise) They try to come up with something, ANYTHING to rationalize why he's the UFC champion and failing that, call him out for his antics which aren't even close to the top 20 worst in the UFC.

Prairiedog,

I think that most people view the WWE as a pseudosport. Therefore the respect of a professional wrestler entering the MMA world would be hard to gain, especially with devouted MMA fans. That, coupled with an abrasive personality like Lesnar's lead people to not like him. He's viewed as a bully. Not a hero.
There's no doubt Lesnar is athletic, but I believe Shane Carwin and others are right. Lesnar should have had to work his way up and not have been given the opportunities White gave him. There are many a men out there who could step in and compete at a high level just like Lesnar, but instead faught their way to the top. Most have been respectufl of their opponents.

I think Shane is a talented fighter, but also displays those rare Couture-like qualities of a champion.

I've never felt negatively about Shane Carwin at all, but these comments change that a little. He condemns Lesnar for being disrespectful of his opponents, but in the same breath is disrespectful to Lesnar. It's one thing to say, "Lesnar is being ignorant" or "Lesnar is acting childish". It's another thing to say "We have been doing a 'bring your child to the gym' day so we can deal with temper tantrums and irrational thoughts."

Then he says that Brock has dissed the level of his opponents and says that he's fought 3 times as many people as Brock. Well that's somewhat dissing Brock's opponents by not giving them due credit. Carwin's fought 3 times as many opponents, but Lesnar's fought more than 3 times the level of competition. Directly or indirectly saying 11 wins over opponents who, most of which, wouldn't fight on the prelim of a UFC Fight Night is more impressive than wins over Herring, Couture and Nogueira is ridiculous.

And this whole "Brock was handed everything on a silver platter" idea, or Carwin's quote "I know I wasn't walked through the front door of the UFC with people holding the door for me" needs to stop. If you want to say that the door was held open for Lesnar, fine. Giving someone an opportunity doesn't discredit what they do with that opportunity. "I wasn't fed fights that sell pay-per-views." Getting fed fights is not being fed victories. It doesn't matter how fast he was put in main events, it matters how he's performed in them. People need to focus more on Lesnar's road IN the Octagon, than his road TO the Octagon.

I disagree Jared. I guess we all precieve things a little differently. I thought Shane's comments were some great shots in reply to Brock's comments. "He’s a tough guy and a wrestler. But he’s a Division II national champion — enough said"
Notice that Shane did not start the trash talking. Brock did. You can't be mad at Shane for having better shots so far. I think this fight will be good.
I must confess though, that I have more admiration for Shane than I do for Brock.
I agree, giving someone an opportunity is great. But Brock should have been given an opportunity to fight in the UFC at the lower echelons first. Just like the opportunities extended to GSP, The Natural, Chuck, The Dragon, and all the others.
I do believe that despite a person's talent, they should have to earn their way up and not be given these huge paper-view events while all those who get paid little or nothing start at the bottom. I feel that most MMA fans would agree.

Well, I guess I'll root for Shane and you guys can root for Brock. You can insult my intelligence Steve, but I bet you're not attending a top university majoring in Neuroscience and Physiology.
I'll take the high road and refrain from playing in the mud with some of the crappy things being said about me.

Well if you were trying to make me laugh Steve, you succeeded. As far as "phonies" I guess we'll never know. People can say anything online. For example, "Oh and yes I am attending a top university, just not majoring in Neuroscience and Physiology".
Its good to see that fans get heated over fights. It wouldn't be fun if they didn't. I guess some fans actually exercise composure and refrain from the pre-pubescent name calling, while others just can't control themselves. It's almost like they're irrational little kids who throw tantrums.

Have a nice day Steve.

Haha Steve stop making yourself look so foolish and pretend you are taking some sort of high road.

I do not need to question what you say only point it out because you are making obvious that you are a total tool.

Irrational little kids that throw tantrums? Is Shane Carwin that much of an influence on you?

Hope you get kicked in the balls Joe.

Steve, I don't wish ill on you man. I hope it will be a good fight. Still two months to go and if this trash talking keeps up, it will make it that much more worth watching. I'm just not in love with Brock like his fan base seems to be. I think one poster said it best here though. You either like him or hate him, but his fights are talked about. Take your mind out every now and then and dance on it Steve.

"Notice that Shane did not start the trash talking."

To me, it's irrelevant who starts what. And technically, Carwin made comments first. He commented on Brock after UFC 100. Brock hadn't addressed Carwin before then. Secondly, even if Brock did start it, that doesn't justify Carwin's actions. You can't call someone a "class act" for talking trash even if it's in response to someone else. Carwin's trash talking isn't justified because Lesnar trash talked him too.

And I disagree about Carwin having "Couture-like qualities of a champion." In my experience, Randy has NEVER trash talked. You quoted Brock as saying he doesn't respect Randy, did Randy respond by dissing Brock? I don't believe so. Class acts aren't just respectful when their opponent is. If Carwin was a true class act, he would be respectful even when Brock was not.

As far as Brock getting earlier opportunities, how can you argue that he was undeserving when he's dominated everybody? Why should he have to destroy all these undercard guys when it was evident he can hang with the top guys? And if he was fighting undercard guys, then all "true" mma fans would just say, "yeah, but he's just beating guys that aren't good". He didn't just need to fight top guys for high drawing money, he needed to fight top guys to prove if he was for real. The notoriety didn't just let him go to the top, it pretty much forced him or no one would take him seriously. People complain that he was fighting top level guys, but they would've complained the same if he was fighting low level guys and people would say that he's being "protected" by the UFC (ie Kimbo in Elite XC).

Besides, after Lesnar destroyed Herring, it was evident he was good. Were all questions answered? No. But it was evident at the time that he was above the rest of the second tier heavyweights. And people talk like being matched up with the best right away is a positive. In terms of competition, Lesnar was thrown to the wolves. If he had lost to any of the top guys in convincing fashion, it would've done a lot of damage. If fighter A was put against GSP right out of the gate and lost, it would be a longer road back to the title than if they fought their way there originally.

As much benefit comes from fighting top level guys, the same goes for risk as well.

Again I disagree Jared. Shane was essentially the voice of many people after Lesnar Vs Mir 2. It was obvious that Lesnar pissed off most of the MMA world and MMA fighters. When Shane was asked about Lesnar's post fight antics, he responded reasonably. Its one thing to desrespect your opponent, openly disrepect your opponent and then disrespect your opponent after a victory, then to state reasonably your thoughts on such abrasive post fight behaviours as Shane did. So I don't see Shane as having disrespected Lesnar.

As far as "The Natural" Randy never disrepecting an opponent you should re see the fight between Tito and Randy. Yea the one where Randy spanks Tito's ass.

That fight parallels the Shane and Lesnar to me. You have this loud mouth bully and a down-to-earth MMA professional.

I'm not implying that Lesnar was not worthy of the top performers, but noteriety does not equate to fairness. It was a slap in the face to people who have been on undercards, to see Lesnar, a former WWE star, walk into the UFC and be given the chance to face the guys he did.

Hopefully this will be a good fight.

Much if it has to do with Lesnar being a cash cow for the UFC as well.

Shane is going to smash that big ass monkey Lesnar. Lesnar will face someone his own size.

Wes,
Shane Carwin inflates his stats and is nowhere near Lesnar's size. For a guy who is supposedly 6'3", he is towered over by other 6'3" guys and is only eye to eye with Gonzaga in their staredown because Carwin was wearing shoes and Gonzaga was leaning forward greatly. Realistically, Carwin is 6'1", 260 pounds. Even if he bulks up to 280, he's going to be a lot slower and at more of a disadvantage IMO. Carwin can throw around Cole Konrad, a 300 pound Div 1 NCAA champion with ease during training, so Carwin's size isn't going to be a factor regardless. As much as nobody is willing to admit, Lesnar has skill. It's just exaggerated even more when he faces smaller opponents. Unfortunately, Carwin will be another one of those smaller opponents.

Forgive me, I meant to say that LESNAR throws around Cole Konrad. Konrad is part of Lesnar's training camp.

Hey Anon. Lesnar has skill no doubt. But Shane has skill too. He's got a legit backround that includes wrestling and football. He's definately got knock out power and it will be hard for Lesnar to take him down because of his size. Shane will try to stuff the take downs because that will be Brocks stength. I hope they go tow-to-tow because I want to see if Lesnar has a chin. I think Shane is prepared to fight on the ground too. What would happen if Shane takes Lesnar down and Lesnar's the one being laid on? I'm not really a huge fan of Shane, but to be honest I'm not a fan of Lesnar. Should be fun to watch. I think every fighter inflates their size. I know when I played football we all did.

football isnt MMA though.

All I will say about this bout is that Carwin is not like Frank Mir who is past his days of title contention, nor is an old of date legend that is litterally 60-70 pounds lighter than his opponet.( I Have great respect for Randy and think he will be great at 205)
Carwin is no fucking joke, and it was incredibly disrespectful for lesner to say that he has beaten no one. The reality of the situation is Carwin has more experience than Lesner, and imo will ko him if the bout stay standing long enough. Lesner is a freakish athlete and comes from a soley entertainment backround, where I beleive (as many other mma fans) he should have stayed. No doubt he sells PPV's, but lets see him get some competition under his belt with his first "legit" title defence (seeing as Mir held the interum belt at the tme of his defeat unifying them)I am excited to see this bout, and personally hope e sends a humbled Brock Lesner back to the gym.

"Lesner is a freakish athlete and comes from a soley entertainment backround"

Yeah, cause NCAA wrestling is purely entertainment. What doesn't make sense to me is why they scripted Lesnar to go 106-5 instead of 111-0. Pretty dumb planning by the NCAA.

"The reality of the situation is Carwin has more experience than Lesner"

Experience is relative. LeBron is less experienced than a lot of NBA players, doesn't mean he's not one of the top two players in the world along with Kobe. Derrick Rose is arguably a top 10 PG going into his second season. Experience can be insignificant. I'm not saying it's completely irrelevant, but it's far from the deciding factor.

"Frank Mir who is past his days of title contention"

Not sure about that, and I think the majority of mma experts would disagree with you.

Convenient that Carwin's opponents being minimized is disrespectful and yet you minimized Lesnar's victories over far superior heavyweights. For argument's sake, let's say Carwin is Lesnars first "legit" test, what will you say if Lesnar beats him? Will Lesnar be legitimized or will another excuse just be tagged on to minimize Lesnar's victory?

Joe-

I actually think Randy-Tito is slightly different. Randy did it in the Octagon, and I think there was more of a "I just schooled you" statement than a "you are immature, irrational and stupid" statement. Not that it was the most respectful thing you could do, but it's different than degrading the type of person someone is.

I understand your point about Lesnar coming in and getting high priority. But again, I think there are slightly special circumstances. The heavyweight division was empty. It would be different if he came in today and leapfrogged Carwin, Velasquez, Dos Santos etc.

Let's look at the heavyweight division as it was when Lesnar arrived:

Nogueira beats Sylvia (Sylvia leaves)
Couture- "retired"
Mir- on his way to fight Nogueira
Arlovski- on his way out
Gonzaga- on his way down after title shot
Kongo- still not ready for a title shot today, so definitely not ready back then
Carwin- not in the UFC
Velasquez- not in the UFC
Dos Santos- not in the UFC

That pretty much covers the basis of the top tier as it stands today, so who did Lesnar leapfrog? Guys that are still fighting on the undercard not anywhere near a title shot? You only have so much room to complain if you aren't where you think you should be. If you're not winning fights, it doesn't matter if some guy comes in that's better than you and moves ahead.

And anyone that was in the UFC when Lesnar came in and bypassed them...if you're so pissed off and he's so undeserving, win fights and take his title. Otherwise, keep losing and keep your mouth shut.

Jonathon, you make a good point. Lesnar does come from an entertainment backround, seeing that NCAA wrestling is reletivley low-key compared to the WWE and the UFC. So good point.
Although Lesnar does have wrestling in his backround, I wouldn't say that is where he established his abrasive character or became the Brock we all know today...so yea I agree he did come from an entertainment backround in eyes of a lot of MMA fans.

Jared, I disagree with you yet again. After the Lesnar/Mir fight 2 Randy had this to say about Lesnar. "I didn't really expect him to lose his mind after the fight, but he did," Couture said of Lesnar. "That's just not the kind of thing our sport is known for, those kinds of antics and those kinds of comments"
Couture also took a shot at Lesnar for saying he planned to get on top of his wife, Rena Mero, who's better known as the WWE star and former Playboy cover girl Sable.

"I'm thinking, What, is that a special occasion?," Couture said. "You're married to Sable, you'd think that'd be happening all the time."

So indeed even our beloved Randy has taken shots outside of the ring, in this, case his comments reflected what most MMA fans had been thinking.

As far as the Heavy weight division before Lesnar- Every one of those guys put a ton of training into getting to the top. It was a slap in the face to all of them. So I disagree with you again.

There's no anger in my blood. Im stating what the majority of MMA fans think. If that makes YOU mad then deal with it. I can promise you that Lesnar is the bad guy in this fight and most people root for the good guy. Sorry.

Joe,
I'm actually curious to see how Lesnar handles himself from the bottom. I think it would be interesting to see Carwin take Lesnar down. Will Lesnar panic, or will he stay composed and get back to his feet? I'm sure the crowd would definitely roar.

Still, I see either Lesnar taking Carwin down and TKO'ing him, or Carwin connecting with a right and putting Lesnar to sleep. I'm a big Lesnar fan obviously, but people who think Lesnar's head/neck are too big to be knocked unconscious are stupid. Carwin is powerful enough to knock out any fighter in any weight class. By the same token, I think Lesnar can take down Carwin at will. If Gonzaga did with one arm more or less, and if Couture was having his way with him during training for UFC 91, then I see no reason why Lesnar can't (yes I realize that's using MMA-math but it's focusing on a specific issue Lesnar is known to excel in)

We'll see what happens first, I guess. Win or lose, I'd like to see Lesnar fight Big Nog next, and I'd like to see Carwin fight Junior Dos Santos.

"so yea I agree he did come from an entertainment backround in eyes of a lot of MMA fans"

It's completely irrelevant what's "in the eyes of the fans." Fame from professional wrestling does not mean that's the extent of his experience. People's lack of knowledge of Lesnar's legitimate skills doesn't diminish or erase them. It's purely fact that Lesnar was 106-5 in NCAA wrestling. No matter how many people don't know that doesn't mean it didn't happen, so it's legitimate experience.

Randy's comments on Brock are not disrespectful in the slightest. Shane made similar comments, but they included PERSONAL insults. Not just observations. There's an absolute different between saying "Lesnar acted like an idiot" and "Lesnar is an idiot." If Carwin's comments were limited to the former, that would be fine. But he didn't, he added on the latter in his comments.

"Every one of those guys put a ton of training into getting to the top. It was a slap in the face to all of them."

A slap in the face to all of them? Nogueira and Mir were in the title picture AHEAD of Brock. 6 of the other fighters I listed were/are NOT in the UFC. How can that be a slap in the face to them? That leaves 2: Gonzaga had a title shot and was slipping down the ladder (and still is) and Kongo hasn't developed enough to reach the top and was nowhere near a title shot by the time Lesnar came in. And if Lesnar would've fought Kongo/Gonzaga before or after Herring, he would've destroyed them anyway.

To put this in perspective, Lesnar is on top and Gonzaga is nowhere near him and Kongo is still quite a ways away from him.

Also, when I said "And anyone that was in the UFC when Lesnar came in and bypassed them...if you're so pissed off and he's so undeserving, win fights and take his title. Otherwise, keep losing and keep your mouth shut."

That was addressed to "anyone in the UFC", not you. I didn't accuse you of being angry. I was saying it to any fighters. If Kongo and Gonzaga were "slapped in the face" by Lesnar being shot to the top, then they should do something about it. They should win fights and take his title. If they're not capable of rising to his level, then they or anyone else who felt "slapped in the face" should be quiet. Either beat him, or admit he's better than you.

Hey Anon.

Yea, I agree (go figure). Lesnar has an exceptional take down ability. I think Shane realizes the advantage Brock has, so he'll be training for that. No matter the outcome, Big Nog and Brock would be awesome.

Jared,

Well I guess it's who you ask if Randy's comments were meant as a compliment or as scourn for Brock. I see it as the latter.

I do believe Brock is an exceptional athlete, however, MMA fighters who started from the bottom are mostly known to be MMA fighters, just as when Shamrock went to the WWF. He was former MMA star Shamrock. I feel that a lot of MMA fans don't yet see Brock as an MMA professional nor as having a backround in MMA, but rather an import from the WWE, despite having wrestling in his backround.
His stint in the WWE outshined his performance as a collegiate wreslter therefore he is known, by his WWE career, as having an entertainer backround, by default. So maybe you misunderstood me there.

Just because the guys you listed were not in the UFC doesnt mean that there weren't other fighters. I feel that Brocks noteriety in the WWE propelled him into a position to face top opponents. Let's not forget..the UFC is a business and Lesnar is a cash cow. BUT, just because you are a cash cow, I feel, does not equate to being given special treatment or pay-per-view events. It's demaening to fighters not just in the heavyweight division.

Misunderstanding with your comment about being pissed off.

Shane is really underestimated for this bout. I think that is going to be his advantage in the fight. Brock will be overconfident and will not train as hard. Meanwhile, Shane will have the same, probably more, intense training that Lesnar had prior to fighting Mir.

The catch with Shane is that, he is largely unknown in his fighting. All of his fights have been held to just the first round. That's going to make it tough for Lesnar to train with. I only hope that Lesnar's training partners don't feed him false BS about how great his is this and that, because the danger would be that Lesnar, like I said will be overconfident with a serious opponent in Shane.

I didn't say Randy's comments were a compliment, nor do I feel that way. They weren't disrespectful. He was critical of Brock, but not in a negative way by attacking Brock as a person. He may have condemned his actions, but not him as a person. Carwin seems to mix the two a little.

I'll agree that Lesnar is a cash cow, but it wasn't the sole determining factor for him fighting top competition. When Brock was convincing Dana to bring him in after only one professional fight, he told him that he wants to fight the best. He may be a cash cow, but he would've been had he fought 2 or 3 lower card guys. All the people Lesnar brought in would've paid to see him fight anyone.

That said, I also don't think Lesnar was skyrocketed purely because of him being a cash cow either. Kimbo can make a lot of money and I don't think he's 2 fights away from a title fight like Lesnar was. Lesnar is a beast, and it's evident when he fights. Not a single person fighting in the UFC when Lesnar was came in would've beat Herring the way Lesnar did. So while I do understand a little where you're coming from, I don't think it was purely money. The reason the majority of the people that Lesnar did bypass got bypassed is because they're not as good as him. They haven't been matched up with Herring or Mir because they would lose. They aren't on their level yet. While the fans may have not believed Lesnar was on their level when he started, he's proved that he is.

Brock may have come in at the second tier of the heavyweight and not the bottom, but why should he have when he's clearly better than that? Fighters aren't just matched up for money, they're matched up for ranking. If Lesnar can come in and beat guys in the second tier, I see it as being pointless to fight the bottom tier. If he's better than B fighters, it's pointless to fight C fighters.

Maybe it goes back to the fact that people only see him as a WWE star. Now I'm surprised at how fast he's risen, but not how high. Lesnar proved in his first MMA fight that he was better than the bottom of the barrel, so he moved up the ladder. And it goes back to my point, why match up a fighter with Mir/Herring over Lesnar just because they've fought more times when Lesnar can beat Herring/Mir and the more experienced fighters can't?

If Lesnar can beat a B, C, or D level fighter and Mir can beat a B, C or D level fighter, why have them each fight a B, C, or D level fighter when they can fight each other?

Jared,

Again, I guess its about who you ask, concerning Randy's comments. Maybe Randy can clarify that.

It was not the sole factor in deciding weather Brock should be faced against top fighters (on brock being a cash-cow). I feel that it was the deciding factor, however. Big difference to me.

In all honesty our views are purely speculation because we don't know how the UFC decides on matchups. But, based on past debacles that included tier one fighters and their unsatisfaction with Dana and the UFC, it might be safe assume that match ups are not always based on what the best fights would be. Obviously, obviously, the UFC takes into account ticket sales, profit estimates, etc when match ups are made. Thus, I feel Brocks deciding factor was his cash-cow personality.

Also, if you read closely, I never made any mention of the purpose Brock Lesnar "sky rocketed". To put simply, I commented on the opportunities extended to him that may be viewed as favoritism, because those fighters who have been around were left in the dog house. Another difference to me.

I don't think that it was apparent or obvious enought to assume that no matter who Dana put in front of Lesnar he would have destroyed. I'm not buying that.

A persons past experiences in a sport are overshadowed by their CURRENT talent in MMA. Example, GSP does not have extenive wreslting in his back round, but if you see his CURRENT abilities, he can compete with any top collegiate wreslter.

I agree, if a fighter is better than opponent A he should be matched up with the best. I think you missed my point. I am going to put it simply. Brock Lesnar was given a hand out without having to prove himself first. Despite having wreslting in his backround, that alone should not have qualified him for his opportunities, because its not the measure of an MMA fighters current talent or accumulation of skill.

excuse me, IT IS the measure of an MMA fighters current talent and skill.

"I agree, if a fighter is better than opponent A he should be matched up with the best."

Who's not better than Lesnar? (With possible exceptions that are lined up to face him: Carwin, Velasquez, Dos Santos) How can anyone say he wasn't qualified to fight Mir out of the gate when he almost beat him, and arguably would have if it wasn't for the horrible call we've come to know. How can anyone say it was a hand out to fight Herring when he destroyed him?

I think your point would be 100% valid if Lesnar had been decisively beaten. But he hasn't. He has stood toe to toe with everyone and come out on top (again, with exception to the first Mir fight that was questionable). I agree with your assessment of GSP and I would transfer that thought to Lesnar.

While you don't ignore the background, you don't look exclusively at it. That's what I think people do with Lesnar. It's time to let go of his WWE experience and focus on what he's currently doing in the UFC. In the cctagon, he has beaten Herring, Couture and Mir. How was he not deserving of facing them if he beat them?

If Lesnar faces the people and beats them, you can't say he was undeserving of facing them.

*cctagon=octagon

Jared
you're talking as if the outcome was predetermained with the Hearing fight. It's not and it wasn't when he fought those guys. Especially Heath.

I get your point also. I don't, however, view Lesnar as a WWE transfer (only)...If you look back on my comments, I said a lot of MMA fans do. And I understand where they come from. Unfortunately, not every MMA fan cares how good he was in college wreslting. They see Lesnar as a WWE guy. It makes sense to me because I knew nothing of Lesnar before the WWE.

Again, I'm not saying he is not deserving of fighting anyone. I'm saying that initially, when he signed a gigantic contract with the UFC, it was an opportunity not extended to those who have been around. I think Lesnars noteriety played a role in that.

I'll let you get the last word on this because I'll keep coming here. Haha. You make some good points Jared and hopefully in November all fans can be happy with a great fight.

Take it easy

It wasn't predetermined, but it wasn't like Lesnar was a severe underdog. It wasn't a sure thing Lesnar would win, but I don't think Lesnar had no business being in there with Herring since he held his own with Mir. I would say going into Lesnar-Mir 1, that Mir was favored 60-40 at best and I think people who were knowledgeable about both Mir and Lesnar would agree.

"Unfortunately, not every MMA fan cares how good he was in college wreslting. They see Lesnar as a WWE guy. It makes sense to me because I knew nothing of Lesnar before the WWE."

I think this is the most telling thing you say. The reason why you, admittedly, and so many others felt he had no business being in there is because you only saw him as a WWE performer. It makes sense to think he was elevated too quickly when people don't know the person. But if people had known his collegiate wrestling, the athleticism he showed in WWE, and the raw ability he showed in his first MMA fight, I think it was less shocking to see him fight top tier fighters.

I do think being well known did give him a partial head start, because a fighter generally needs two things to get a title shot, ability and name recognition. Having the name recognition did give Lesnar a head start in that department. But I don't think he was out of his element in the ability department. A fighter that goes 10-0 in the UFC would almost assuredly get a title shot before a guy that's 15-0 coming into the UFC. That's the nature of the game.

Lesnar didn't need to fight to let people know who he was, he just needed to fight to show how good he was. Considering everything in his background and his natural ability, I don't think he should've had to fight lower quality fighters just because. Like I said, his first fight he destroyed a lower quality fighter. He needed to fight tougher competition to see where he was.

I don't think it was strictly "he absolutely was on the level of Mir and completely deserving of fighting" but I don't think it was "he had no business being in there and was a glorified celebrity" (not necessarily your exact perception, but it is a wide perception).

And I think at this point, we're kind of passed it. It may not have been an absolute certainty at the time, but Lesnar has proved that he was deserving of being in there and is also deserving of respect right now as the champion. Despite what some MMA fans think, Lesnar has proved himself. That said, I think Carwin is a more than formidable opponent and should make for one phenomenal fight come November 21st.

You guys sound really smart, but one thing all of you fail to address is that the UFC is all about fighters skyrocketing overnight. This isn't boxing where fighters have at least 20 professional fights before getting a title shot (except for the De La Hoya's of the sport). The UFC is all about the man of the hour, who'll make the most noise right away. It's not just the UFC, it's mma in general. Fighters with more than 10 fights are considered experienced, while pro boxers with that record are barely fighting 6 rounders.

it doesnt matter if your handed the fuckin fight, the door is opened for you or whatever he BEAT courture, mir herring. HE BEAT THEM. yeah "oh he sucks he got it handed to him" ok then you go get off the couch and beat those people since its SO easy