Interviews
MMATorch Exclusive: Bent Interviews Ken Shamrock
Mar 11, 2009 - 11:45:14 PM MMATorch Exclusive: Bent Interviews Ken Shamrock

DISCUSS ALL THIS IN OUR NEW MMATORCH FORUM

...OH, ONE MORE THING - PLEASE BOOKMARK US & VISIT DAILY!

I had the opportunity to speak with Ken Shamrock earlier this evening, before the news broke in regards to positive tests for steroids following his bout with Ross Clifton. As such, I was unable to address these matters with him, but I shall in the coming weeks when I get the chance to speak to him again.

What follows is Ken’s take on a multitude of subjects including his upcoming bout with Bobby Lashley at "March Badness" on March 21 in Pensacola, Florida as well as Brock Lesnar, BJ Penn-GSP, "The Ultimate Fighter" and young fighters who take shortcuts.

Ken Shamrock is a pioneer of this sport and a true legend and it was my distinct pleasure to get a few moments with him and touch on some subjects as he nears the end of preparation for his bout against Lashley.



Jason Bent: First and foremost, how do you feel right now? How is your body and how has training been going for you in preparation for Lashley?

Ken Shamrock: My body is strong, I’m healthy and that to me right there is something that I haven’t felt for a very long time; being healthy.

JB: Obviously no athlete retains the same exact skill set he possessed in his mid-twenties as he competes into his forties, however changes get made which can suddenly allow the athlete to continue competing on a world-class level. For instance a pitcher in baseball may have thrown the ball at over 100 mph in his twenties but finds himself at 40 yrs. old and maxing out at 90 mph. However he now has an improved curveball, the changeup and he can hit the corners. So it is different strengths at this stage of his career.

At this stage of your career as you continue to compete; and with respect to your current shape and skill set, what is it if anything that you have worked on specifically or developed as a way to add a new wrinkle to your game and compensate for the natural facts of life and the aging process? What has changed to allow you to max out your abilities at this point?

KS: Well, first of all fighting is a different thing than baseball. I think that athletes lose speed, they lose skill as far as the reflex type skills but what they don’t lose is strength. Power to punches. They don’t lose when it comes to power. If you have power you will have power until your body pretty much deteriorates and you don’t have the muscle anymore. But your power is the last thing to go. Reflex is the first thing to go. Sight, vision, being able to see things coming goes. Your hearing, stuff like that goes. Your senses, all of those things but when it comes to power, that power is the last thing to go.

I still have my power. I still have the strength on the ground. I still have the submissions on the ground. Things that I lacked earlier on and I have made mention of this before but I don’t dwell on it because it’s just an excuse and unless I’m able to prove differently; which I will on the 21st .

I have had injuries. I have had a knee replacement, which was an ACL, and I have had a shoulder replacement which was wear they took the ball out of my shoulder and shaved it down and put a titanium plate on it and then screwed it back into my shoulder and reattached everything. I have had pretty serious injuries that I have had to compensate for in the past five years.

I have gotten past those injuries. I have gotten strong and they are back to normal where they should be. When I get in the ring on the 21st, I will prove that what I was saying and you can forget about excuses and forget about what I’m saying and just look at my performance on the 21st as opposed to what I have done in the last couple years. Because I have had injuries. It’s only an excuse until I get in the ring on the 21st and I show what I am capable of doing and then it’s not an excuse anymore. It’s reality.

JB: Originally the proposed plan was for a future fight with Tank Abbott following the St. Valentine’s Eve Massacre. Your next opponent is Bobby Lashley, but before we get into the Lashley fight specifically I would like to know if you still see a Tank Abbott fight in the future. Has anything escalated beyond talks and towards a plan to bring it to fruition.

I mean, obviously Abbott vs. Shamrock is a marketable fight and I would like to know if you feel that this is a fight which we will eventually see.

KS: Well, Tank Abbott is a personal fight. It’s personal with Tank Abbott. There is nothing to do with anything other than the idea that I want to go in there and settle an old score. That’s it. I’m not trying to make this up to be competitive and I’m not trying to make this out to be something that it is not.

It is personal. So, it is something that I think most people would want to see and some of the old school fans want to see this. It is a fight that should have happened a long time ago but did not. I want it to happen because it’s a score I want to settle. So, put everything else aside about what people are saying whether it is good or it’s not good. I don’t care. It’s personal to me and it’s what I want to do.

Now as far as the Lashley bout goes, it came about because Roy Jones Jr. the boxer is fighting on the MMA card and he needed someone who is comparable to his name in boxing in the world of MMA. There was a lot of guys out there that have good names but fortunately for me, I’m walking around without a contract.

I am a guy that goes on a Pay Per View show and draws over a million viewers on a Pay Per View show and I’m walking around without a contract. Now that doesn’t happen in professional sports. Because those guys are always under contract. Fortunately for me, I am walking around as a free agent and I draw those kind of numbers; I mean I write my own ticket!

JB: Now going off of fights which are personal, there has been plenty of talk as there has always been and especially so in recent weeks regarding you and your brother, Frank. It appears to me as if Frank stirred the pot and got the benefit of the buzz but as always lacks interest in actually making the fight happen.

You have gone on record stating that you do not wish to get involved with the gamesmanship until it becomes about more than talk and I would like to know your opinion on the likelihood of this fight ever happening and has there ever been one time when things moved towards actual negotiation at all?

KS: It’s just talk, you know and it’s never going to happen. For whatever reason when the fight is going to happen, Frank backs out and has a reason why it shouldn’t happen and I’m just tired of it.

JB: March 21st represents a day of firsts in that professional boxing and MMA will join together in Pensacola, Florida for "March Badness." Future boxing Hall of Famer and legend, Roy Jones, Jr. is set to take on Omar Sheika in the main event on the boxing side and on the MMA front it’s you, UFC Hall of Famer and MMA legend, Ken Shamrock taking on promising upstart Bobby Lashley.

Are you surprised that no one has successfully pulled off a combination MMA and boxing show in the past and do you feel that the two sports and their respective fans can co-exist and that cards like this could become commonplace in the future?

KS: Definitely. It needs to happen because boxing has a lot of fans out there that are angry with MMA because of a lot of things that were said earlier on in MMA. And they keep feuding both MMA and boxing in the past years and you know that they are both fighting events and both are good sports with great champions and they need to come together. Both the fans and the fighters need to come together and really make this thing happen because it is only going to benefit the fighters.

JB: Do people ever expect too much from Ken Shamrock? What I mean by this is does it ever become a burden to be the UFC Hall of Famer who was the face of this sport for so long as you continue to compete and entertain at this stage of your career? Do people expect too much from you at this point?

KS: Well, no, I mean there are always expectations when you are an athlete and have ever been in the spotlight there are going to be those expectations and you have to expect that. The thing that I am disappointed in is the organizations themselves that it seems like people are trying to force me out. You know, like it’s time for me to leave.

It’s like this. I have done so many things over the years and entertained so many people and I am still capable of going into the ring and fighting which I will prove on March 21st when I get in there. Right now it is time for me to go out there and do what I want to do. I am enjoying myself and am still capable of going in there and having fun so what is the problem. I say leave me alone! Let me fight and don’t force me out!

JB: Not once have you ever stated that your goal is to face Fedor or contend for a belt, but with your resume is it possible that there exists a group of people that have grown to expect nothing less from you and just have a hard time seeing you facing foes who have never been on your level?

I mean, not once have you been out there saying that you wanted a title fight, but do you think that a lot of these people are expecting you to do this because of where you once were in your career? For instance they are not looking at you and judging you on your entertainment value now and what you bring to the sport and are instead focusing on the past and the fighter you once were. What is your opinion?

KS: I think it is more that these are their issues and not an issue with me. It’s more of the things that they have got to deal with and they have just got to let go. You know, it’s like when someone has accomplished what I have accomplished and done all that I have done and wants to still go in there and have fun and doesn’t want to sit on the couch and be lazy or just collect a paycheck and not do anything and I mean that’s just not me. I want to work and I don’t want to be lazy. I want to stay as active as I can possibly be and I want to compete.

The fact is that this shouldn’t make me a bad person. These people should look at it and go, "you know, I was a fan of this guy and he was a great fighter who did a lot of things for the sport and now he is doing things that make him happy and I am happy for him."

JB: I agree that it seems at this stage of your career that your goals are to continue doing something that you love, and also to work towards getting your business off of the ground in reference to Ken Shamrock Promotions. Throughout all of sports and entertainment, the landscape is littered with promotional companies headed by folks with no business sense or thieves looking to cash in on the popularity of a certain product. Those characters have done more harm than good and as a rule they make it harder for everyone else to prove themselves.

How much harder do you have to work to prove that you are not to be judged or lumped in with people such as those?

KS: Yeah, I don’t know. I think that to even try to do that you will just spend your whole life just fighting negativity and I think you should just do what you do and answer those questions about those kinds of things and then move forward and work on the positive.

JB: What are some of the goals for Ken Shamrock Promotions in looking ahead to just the next five years? Not going further than that but in the smaller picture, what are some goals you have and what could be reasonably achieved that would please you and make you happy?

KS: I’d like to see my gyms, I mean I’ve got two going and I have got a couple more up and I’d like to see those up and running. I’d like to be able to do a promotion to where and I’m not looking at the UFC level because that’s a lot of work and a lot of people involved. But something to where I can keep fighters working and something where we are making a decent payday and so that I could stay in the business.

JB: Now, looking specifically at your fight on March 21st again; Bobby Lashley is a legitimate athlete. He was once a highly decorated wrestler in the amateur ranks and ventured off into the world of pro wrestling to take advantage of the income opportunities that it afforded him.

He is now getting his feet wet in the world of MMA, but he is certainly getting into deep water in terms of skills and experience when it comes to facing you. I’d like to get your thoughts on what you see in Lashley.

Is he biting off way more than he can chew in facing you in just his second bout and what do you think as far as in terms of his future, irrespective of this bout: is the sky the limit for this guy as a prospect?

KS: Well, it’s like this. If he would have fought me six months or a year ago, he might have had a chance. But right at this particular time with the way that I am feeling and the way that my body is coming back and getting stronger, he definitely bit off more than he can chew.

JB: Now, going off of Bobby Lashley for a moment and looking at Brock Lesnar for a moment who was a collegiate wrestling force who also took advantage of the fact that he was able to make a lot of money working for Vince McMahon and World Wrestling Entertainment at that point in his life.

Lesnar would go on to leap into the world of MMA and is set to take on Frank Mir this summer in a bout which will determine the undisputed UFC Heavyweight Champion. It would appear to me that a guy like Lashley would look at Lesnar and see a template for success, and I imagine there are others out there who are doing the same thing, but do you really feel this is possible for them? To look at Lesnar’s success and imagine it as a reality for themselves or is Lesnar a once in a generation sort who has maybe made it look too easy for these guys?

KS: Well, the difference between Lashley and Lesnar is that Lashley weighed in at 178 pounds in his collegiate career and Lesnar was a heavyweight.

So, you have got a true heavyweight in Lesnar and in Lashley you have a guy who lifted a lot of weights to get to be a heavyweight. So there is a huge difference there in cardio and natural strength.

JB: Now, I look at Brock Lesnar when he took on Randy Couture at UFC 91 and here we are with a similar sort of matchup in one respect with MMA upstart Bobby Lashley assuming the role of Brock Lesnar and taking on the MMA icon with you in place of Randy Couture. Obviously you have fought on larger stages against bigger names and for much more at stake than this bout, but is this bout just another day at the office for you or does it have any special significance at all based on the matchup?

KS: This fight is definitely not just another day at the office for me. I get an opportunity in this fight to close a lot of people’s mouths. You know, people that have been saying things like I shouldn’t be in the ring or I’m washed up and you know I have had injuries that I have fought through these last couple years that have been serious ones.

I had a knee replacement, shoulder replacement and those things took time for me to get healed. I took fights even though I wasn’t at one hundred percent because I’m just that type of person. I don’t want to sit still. I want to stay in it. Now I am coming to a point to where all this stuff is coming together and I’m getting my strength, my conditioning, my boxing and grappling and just everything is coming together.

I get the opportunity to step inside of that ring on March 21st and just close some mouths.

JB: You last fought against Ross Clifton on February 13th and handled him with ease. You looked to be healthy which goes with exactly what you are saying as well as the fact that you looked super comfortable in there once again.

That fight in particular was universally panned for being a mismatch and an example of something that is wrong with MMA. In actuality this fight was a tune-up fight of sorts and a chance to work the kinks out in front of a crowd that quite possibly could never have gotten into the UFC events or up close to any of your big fights. Am I correct in that assumption that this bout was nothing more than a tune-up bout as well as a chance to just entertain the crowd that maybe doesn’t get to see names such as yourself.

Is that a fair statement?

KS: Yeah. You know what, the production company that I’m trying to get up and going and we are in partnership with Wargods and it was an opportunity for me to go on that card, get some fans in there and help get up the production.

At the same time I saw an opportunity to be able to go into some place where these fans wouldn’t get to see somebody live like myself who has been at the top of the game and actually helped build MMA to where it’s at and being able to go into some of these towns like that and fight in front of these live crowds figuring that they would be able to appreciate something like that and it was something I wanted to do. It helped excite some of those fans that are in that area.

JB: Do you feel that Bobby Lashley poses any more of a threat to you than anyone else you have ever faced in your career? What in particular, if anything at all, do you feel that he possesses that could cause you problems in your fight?

KS: Lashley is absolutely no threat to me. Absolutely not. The only thing he is going to be able to do is maybe out wrestle me. That’s it. Other than that, he can’t take me standing up because I will box his ears off. He cannot go to the ground with me with submissions because he doesn’t have any knowledge of even how to get out of a leglock or even an arm bar.

He possesses power but so do I. So, I mean it’s like this guy is going into this match and it’s a bad matchup for him.

JB: Obviously you were a coach on "The Ultimate Fighter" and went through that experience, but I was wondering if you have watched the show at all since then and if you feel that this is really a viable way for the UFC to find a top, young fighter in 2009? Or is "The Ultimate Fighter" more about just creating a compelling television program at this point?

KS: It’s a soap opera. It’s just entertainment and they are trying to create characters. I don’t agree with it but then again that’s just one opinion; but the show doesn’t go into the heart and soul of what MMA fighters are all about. It’s hard work, dedication and you don’t see a lot of that on the show.

It’s just all about these guys being on TV and even the episodes I was on, I didn’t watch it. Because when I saw the first episode where they said "Ken Shamrock was a no-show," and with the way that I was being portrayed it was like I already knew the writing on the wall. I knew what was going to happen so I just didn’t even bother turning the TV on.

JB: Now at your gyms in particular, and especially after "The Ultimate Fighter" took off and interest in the sport skyrocketed with MMA getting this huge spike in popularity, did you get the lineups of jocks who would show up at the gym and think that they could just handle MMA after seeing what the guys on the show went through?

Did you get these guys by the droves and are you still getting them as the sport continues to get bigger?

KS: Yeah, I mean you will get that no matter what. I mean I weed them out very quickly with just the training part of it but what it does is it in my opinion is not the problem; that’s not the problem.

The problem is the young kids that watch it and if they do get skills then you have got this "Mike Tyson syndrome" where they think they can do anything to anybody, anyplace and anywhere and at any time they want to because they are famous. That’s what the show has created in these young kids.

JB: Looking at the way that "The Ultimate Fighter" can create a character and what it can give a young kid from nowhere like a Junie Browning who came from nowhere in Kentucky and suddenly he is on TV and is a name and it is like the show grants them instant star power by way of the recognition.

The kids out there will see that and watch the guys like Lashley and Lesnar who are getting places quickly in this sport, and this goes hand in hand with the fact that we are now a society that wants things quickly. Nothing is like it was back in the day when you actually worked your way up the ladder; and now do you find yourself in a struggle with young fighters in the gym as far as them not wanting to put in the work and deal with being a nobody today so that they can one day become a somebody, and is everyone just looking for that instant gratification and to get everything right now?

KS: Well, that is what you see on TV and it’s not just limited to MMA. With everything on TV it’s like we are now breeding this instant gratification with what is on TV. It’s all about how to make a quick buck, or how to do this investment and make money fast and everything is about quick gratification.

When you start taking those shortcuts, you end up in trouble.

JB: In your opinion is there any one fighter out there that you would actually pay to see fight? If any such fighter exists, of course.

KS: I mean I don’t see any out there that I would put above anybody else. I’d buy a ticket just to watch an MMA event. Even a UFC event, I think all of the fighters in the UFC are extremely talented throughout all weight classes.

If I had the opportunity to go watch one and I was in town, I would buy a ticket and go watch any of those guys fight. Even with some of these smaller cards and these guys are on there and I was around, I would want to go see the fight and go buy a ticket to watch it.

I don’t need a name to go and see a fight and there are just a lot of great fighters out there.

JB: Switching gears and getting your opinion quickly on the controversy which is "Vaseline-gate," in reference to the BJ Penn vs. Georges St. Pierre bout from UFC 94, do you have an opinion on this particular matter and is this something you have had experience with in your career as far as guys greasing themselves up to possibly gain an illegal advantage?

KS: Well, I think that if BJ had really felt like that was an issue and that it really hindered him from winning the fight that there is no reason why they shouldn’t just do it again.

I have always been one of those kinds of guys that if you have got a guy out there who has paved his way and has a good name in MMA and has done a lot for this sport, that if something happened to him in a fight and he felt like he was cheated or it didn’t go the way it should have gone or was stopped that why not give him a shot at it again?

It’s not going to hurt the ticket sales, it’s going to help it so why not just do it again!

JB: Ken, would you have any interest at all or any desire to fight one more fight for the UFC, or are you past that and perfectly content with where you are and where you are going in life? Or would you want that final moment, that official farewell fight under the UFC banner?

KS: I don’t have one. I think I have done everything that I can in this sport and had good successes and have done a lot. If I had an opportunity to fight in the UFC, I would but I don’t have anything that would be a dream match. I have already had those.

Right now I do things because I am having fun and if I see an opponent that is interesting to me and the fight is presented to me then I will do it. I have done my dream matches. Trust me. There is not such a thing for me; I have done those. Now it is just about entertaining and having fun and taking good matchups.

JB: Why is it that so many seem to have it out for you no matter what you do? Do you have anything to say to the detractors or the folks who share the opinion that you shouldn’t be fighting anymore, or do you just pay them no mind and zone it out?

KS: I zone it out, because I have been in this sport a long time and I have had a lot of things said about me and you just have to have thick skin. I don’t let it get to me and I just move forward and work on the positive things that I have going on for me.

Those people who say that about me have got way too much time on their hands to really get upset about things like that about a guy who doesn’t want to be lazy and actually work for a living. I just can’t put two and two together with those people that ask, "What are you doing it for? Why don’t you just kick back and just enjoy everything that you have done?" It’s like, dude, that is not how I am made. That is not why I got to be at the elite level I got to. It’s because this is my makeup. I don’t want to just sit around and watch everyone else have fun while someone else does all the work because that’s just not me.

JB: It’s 2009 and you are a calmer and cooler Ken Shamrock who wants to just have fun, and is in a good place in life; will we see any less aggression from you or a different Ken Shamrock when you step back inside of a ring, cage or octagon in the future?

KS: It’s a big difference between me being outside of the ring and me being inside that ring. When you are in the ring with me, I may be calm but inside I’m waiting to just let the rage out.

JB: New year, same Shamrock. I would like to thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule and wish you the best of luck as you make final preparations for your bout with Bobby Lashley at "March Badness" on March 21st.

You are indeed a legend in this sport and it’s nice to see a guy who still loves what he does and has such a passion for this sport. You definitely are enjoying life right now but before we go is there anything at all that you would like to leave us with?

KS: Well, I just want to say that I appreciate all of the fans that have followed me through the good and the bad, you know?

I am going to go into that ring on March 21st and I am going to put a beating on this guy. This one is for the fans who follow me. I know that there has been a lot of people out there and not necessarily fans but more in the position of control who are trying to get me out of this sport.

I’m here, I’m staying and I’m going to have my final say.

***

Check out today's new debut MMATorch PDF Newsletter #1 (12 pages). It's printer-friendly and it's free, with a week's summary of news and opinion plus exclusive newsletter-only content...

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD/VIEW PDF NEWSLETTER